|Its too soon to tell...but I hope everyone is okay||Kristin|
Sep 11, 2001 7:35 AM
|I know it will be some time before anyone in New York can get online, and that this site is the last thing on their minds. But I hope all you from New York will check in and let us know you're all right.|
|What a terrible day.||Brian C.|
Sep 11, 2001 7:39 AM
|I can't believe it. It's frightening. |
Someone up here in Canada is thinking about you.
|god bless all....||rollo tommassi|
Sep 11, 2001 7:51 AM
|i can't type very well because of the tears in my eyes.|
|All over the world...||Stampertje|
Sep 11, 2001 8:46 AM
|people are thinking about you. Best of luck. |
Bram (The Netherlands)
|Amen to that.......||Len J|
Sep 11, 2001 9:00 AM
|And god bless the survivors.
|I hate to think||cyclopathic|
Sep 11, 2001 9:05 AM
|what it feels like to be there.
I spoke to friend of mine
Sep 11, 2001 10:09 AM
|Went to breakfast this morning with some old retired friends. Heard of incidents, turned on TV immediately when I got back home. Absolutely terrible !!! I pray for all the people that lost their lives. I'm still watching everything unfold on TV. I hope everyone in N.Y. is O.K.
Sep 11, 2001 4:36 PM
|what saddens me just as much as the senseless loss of life and the magnitude of this loss is the fact that people -humans beings - on the streets of Palestine are cheering and celebrating and praising god....
|In a cycling context...||Dog|
Sep 11, 2001 10:53 AM
|This sort of makes our complaints of drivers and other cyclists seem so trivial and petty as to be almost non-existent. We should be thankful, I suppose, that our lives are so peaceful and predictible 99.9% of the time that the annoyances we experience on the bike actually seem so large to us. I'd estimate that nearly everyone on the planet is thankfully thinking "There, but for the Grace of God, go I..." at this point.
|still, more people get killed on the road||cyclopathic|
Sep 11, 2001 2:12 PM
|then died in collapsed World Trade building in NYC.
when the light goes off it would not matter how
|sense of scale||APSBiker01|
Sep 12, 2001 9:32 AM
|Yeah, but these people were killed IN MERE MINUTES, rather than the MONTHS to a YEAR it takes to have that many people die on the roads.|
|still, more people get killed on the road||DINOSAUR|
Sep 12, 2001 6:08 PM
|The difference is traffic accidents are called "accidents" as they are caused by human error, a lack of judgement, or equipment failure.
The World Trade Center diaster was a deliberate act set in place by terrorists.
I also heard on the news that this is the largest single day dealth toll in American history since the Civil War.
Another thing also is most victims in traffic accidents are identified. It will probably take days for people to find out if their friends or relatives survived the World Trade Center incident.
It's a sad to lose a human life in any senseless act. I can't comprehend how many people this will effect. Fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, son-in-laws, sister-in-laws, cousins, friends.
|My deepest sympathies to the American people.||Largo|
Sep 11, 2001 10:58 AM
|I was walking to school this morning and saw all these airliners landing here in Calgary, and i wondered what was up.
This sounds inadequate, but why can't we all just get along.
Sep 11, 2001 11:16 AM
Just what did these acts accomplish other than to kill innocent people? Whoever is responsible for this.....should be treated like they did to these people.
Didn't pmf say that he works at the White house?
|A no win situation....||Cima|
Sep 11, 2001 12:31 PM
|What has happened today will not stop any terrorist group from continuing to try get their point out. Our leaders must seriously address the mentality of individuals willing to commit suicide for whatever their cause may be. Finding the leaders of those responsible for these acts and punishing them will not be the end-all solution. Martyrdom reigns supreme amongst middle-eastern culture, so we are faced with the possibility of continued terrorism anytime, anywhere. There will never be a peaceful solution to the middle-east crisis, and the western world will remain seen as the great evil. |
Ask yourselves if we should not still be held accountable for the thousands of innocent lives the U.S. took from Japan in a matter of nano-seconds in 1945. If I were Japanese, I'd hold a great amount of resentment to the U.S. for that.
|Are you Canadian?||JS|
Sep 11, 2001 1:27 PM
Sep 11, 2001 1:59 PM
|I wish this world was a place where anger and aggression played a much more minor role. My prayers go out for all those lives lost or forever changed today, as they do for ALL lives lost to mankind's aggression. I keep thinking about Nelson Mandela and how he found a way to resolve the problems of recriminations, hate, and restitution for horrific crimes in a thoughtful deliberate way that lead his country to a more compassionate and a life enriching attitude. We would all be better off to find a way to work through this tragedy in a like manner. Hate leaves you with hate. This is a time to look to our hearts for compassion for all victims and our minds for the understanding that aggressions beget aggressions.|
Sep 11, 2001 1:26 PM
|I guess the only way to make some sense of this act of war is for years we have heard the term "holy war". Now we have a definition to this term. Using our own airplanes in an act of war against ourselves. Cowardly, yes, but this was a brilliant(in the wrong sense),well planned attack and hit right at the heart of what the western world represents to it's attackers, money and military power. As for the hijackers, they believed that in committing these acts that they will reach the height of heights in the spiritual world. Instant Nirvana, a place with kings, the ultimate reward. This was the only way in their minds to reach that level, to die in the battle of a holy war. Unfortunately, this was just another battle of the holy war. Today I have thought about events I have witnessed in my lifetime; Challenger, Oklahoma City, the fall of the Kremlin, Gulf War, this beyond any doubt, this had me shaking with fear in my living room chair as I watched the second plane plow into the Tower and later in the day as I watched the buildings collapse, and then to hear Russ Mitchell of CBS freeze up and say "Oh, my God this is a live shot from the Pentagon" on fire. Granted this is a Bicycling site but since I converse indirectly with many posters on a daily basis, this was just something I had to post.|
|Serious, serious thoughts||Dog|
Sep 11, 2001 1:42 PM
|Something like this, but there never has been anything like this, really makes everyone stop and think.
One of my philosphy (my major) professors defined terrorism as the "failure to see the human in the other." It really fits. Someone who would do this kind of thing simply cannot understand the humanity affected, the utter misery inflicted on millions of family members, children of those lost, parents, friends, not to mention the permanent scarring of the world psyche.
This is an act of pure evil. I know of no religion in history that justified mass killing of civilians in a purely unprovoked attack. They might in their deranged minds believe they are to be rewarded in the afterlife because of these actions, but that is either pure evil or insanity at work. What god, in anyone's mind, would condone, much less reward such an act? Pure insanity.
It's difficult, but at the same time necessary, to be faithful (to whatever your faith is) during such times. While the rational mind asks "what omnipotent, benevolent, God would permit such a thing," we have to assume either that it is pure evil at work, or that there is some higher purpose to these things. Whatever that may be, it's impossible to for us to understand or imagine.
Some people are bad, some people are very bad. In the end, we can't let them destroy all our humanity through their actions. We cannot all become hateful or vengeful, or they destroy far more than those involved it the attack.
Yes, this is a cycling site, but we are friends here. I believed these thoughts did not belong here, too, but in the end, it's hard not to share with our friends.
Don't become further victims. Let's move on and let those who deal with such things deal with them. Let's return to our passion and enjoy lives, maybe counting our blessings as more precious than ever before.
|Serious, serious thoughts||Jon Billheimer|
Sep 11, 2001 2:30 PM
|I echo Doug's and Lauren's sentiments. However, we are all inextricably linked in more ways than |
one. And an event like this changes us all in ways that we probably can't foresee. For some it will
engender a struggle for greater understanding and empathy, for others bigotry and hatred. The
global village is no academic construct. It is the context of our reality. I hope that we do find
useful, constructive ways to move on. I hope retributive justice is meted out to those responsible
for this act of inconceivable barbarism.
We are friends here on this site, and we are fortunate to share our passion for cycling--something so
opposite to today's events, so clean, so simple, so life expanding. The problem of evil is probably
insoluble. However, there exists, in equal strength and opposition to evil, goodness, caring,
and sharing. So as much as possible, to paraphrase a Biblical passage, let's hold on to whatever
|Serious, serious thoughts||keith m|
Sep 11, 2001 2:47 PM
|I know of no religion in history that justified mass killing of civilians in a purely unprovoked attack.
Well Doug my good freind, in the Quran it states in Sura 9:5;
"fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them,beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war."
And as far as people who resist Islam it states in Sura 5:33;
"Their punishment is execution, or crucifiction, or the cutting off of hands and feet from the opposite sides, or exile from the land."
The people we are dealing with have a twisted veiw indeed.
pray for our great nation!
|Serious, serious thoughts||Lone Gunman|
Sep 11, 2001 3:20 PM
|Having lived in a ME country for 1.5 years, this description IS the way of life for devout followers of the Koran. To die in this fashion as today, is the one way ticket to paradise, in their belief. It is one of those situations where you had to live and experience it to understand it. My time there was at the beginning of terrorist actions 83/84.|
|Serious, serious thoughts||Dog|
Sep 11, 2001 5:21 PM
|How should we respond to people who have such beliefs, and worse, those who act on those beliefs? It certainly would be un-Christian to annihilate them. Do we merely fortify our borders?
Obviously, the time has come when zealots can utilize modern instrumentalities they did not even create for mass murder. They accomplished this, reportedly, with no more than a pocket knife. If they truly do believe as you report, I can't see that we are safe merely occupying the same planet with them.
|Serious, serious thoughts||Lone Gunman|
Sep 11, 2001 5:47 PM
|Emotions Dog. That is the answer or the thought process. What makes the ultra endurance athlete pedal 3000 miles in 8 days or so in a RAAM? How much of that ride is done on emotion? How many people have that emotion? The persons who are carrying out these attacks have that emotion to kill themselves for a cause. Not all Muslim have that passion or emotion to carry out the ultimate plan. Let me give you another twist to the mindset to think about. When Hadj and Ramadan holy days were in effect, if an Arab would somehow die during this time period (traffic accident was very common) he reached instant nirvana, he was "chosen" to die during the holy days. I saw some spectacular accidents, Nascar highlight film stuff during holy days. An honor of the highest degree. Let's throw out another wild thought. The Arabs that I knew personally told me, without question, that Israel is the 51st state of the USA. Just an example of the mindset.|
|Serious outrage, worry, and disgust||peloton|
Sep 11, 2001 5:52 PM
|I'm sorry if my first post came off as advocating violence, I would normally never feel that way. I have been watching this tragedy unfold today, and there is a lot of feeling. I can't see what point could be being made by inflicting such a toll on innocent people. I have been disgusted by watching people celebrate in the streets of Palestine. You celebrate? Celebrate?! Celebrate what? The fact that people who were just going to work died for no reason? The fact that people like me have been sitting around trying to get in touch with family and friends? Come on. I've been worrying about a pilot friend from United who flies out of Boston regularly. I've been worrying about a former girlfriend and others in NYC. I can't imagine being right there. I wish I had the restraint to not want to lash out at those who are responsible for this. How can you not be outraged by this though? Something needs to be done so that this doesn't occur again.
It's hard to comprehend that there are people out there that can't see the human in others enough to do something like this. It's hard for me to see the human in someone capable of this too. Are you human if you can do something like this?
|One of the board members worked at the trade center...||Kristin|
Sep 11, 2001 11:50 AM
|Does anyone remember who? I've been racking my brains all day but can't remember.
To all of our New York City members, I'm praying for you guys and hope you are safe.
|One of the board members worked at the trade center...||DINOSAUR|
Sep 11, 2001 1:52 PM
|I'm not too sure, think it might have been boy nigel? Then if I recall, he got layed off a couple of months ago. Anyone have an old forum profile handy? It's hard to keep track of who is who....|
|What little we can do to help...||4bykn|
Sep 11, 2001 11:55 AM
|Everyone who is able should find a blood drive and donate. I've always been afraid to, but there is a drive at work Monday and I now plan to.|
|What little we can do to help...||kushogun|
Sep 11, 2001 7:28 PM
|I was in my Managerial Accounting class today when the professor stopped his lecture and beamed in on the overhead monitors the horrific sites unfolding in New York. 1000 students looked on in disbelief as we watched our lives virtually change before our eyes. Anyone from New York, Washington D.C. or anyone who needs some support, I just wanted to tell you that the 28,000+ students at the University of Kansas uniformly stand together with you. None of us will ever quite be the same again.|
|re: Its too soon to tell...but I hope everyone is okay||mk_42|
Sep 11, 2001 2:13 PM
|I too keep thinking back to people who said they commute or ride or work in NYC and wonder. I don't remember who any of them were, and I have the feeling none of them are checking the board right now anyway. But for what it's worth my heart's with you.
|WHAT THE F*CK ???||QUADZILLA|
Sep 11, 2001 2:45 PM
|I can't believe this has happened in our country. I can't believe that I saw this happen on TV right in front of me. I was looking forward to a long club ride this weekend, but now who cares ? I sat on my living room floor, crying, holding my 4 year old daughter. She didn't understand. I don't want her to understand. I saw an image of a little girl covered in debris, wondering about the streets crying. I held on tighter, my heart bleeding......may God have mercy upon their souls, and upon ours for what we are about to do.....|
|Sadly, this will just lead to more senseless killing||Largo|
Sep 11, 2001 3:03 PM
|Hopefully, there won't be a spur-of-the-moment responce leading to more innocent lives being lost.
I can just imagine how terified families in the middle east must be, fearing that some massive retaliation will put an end to them as well.
We can only hope that the terrorists responcible will be caught, and made an example of.
|Maybe these people should rise up||Live Steam|
Sep 12, 2001 10:22 AM
|and hold those accountable to task. I understand they may be weaker, but they are also more in number. They should be hatful of those that committed these acts and for the jeopardy they have been placed in by these cowards. They should help to eliminate them from existence and should aide us in their apprehension!|
|I know what it's like....||Allen az|
Sep 11, 2001 2:56 PM
|I was in Kuwait during the Gulf War...My family and I were living in an upscale apartment building, there were bombings everyday, and the building would sway back & forth. Thankfully, it never got hit. The U.S. government had to evacuate us out of Kuwait. We lost everything we had. We would have been dead if evacuated 1 day later. Saddam torchered all the American Citizens that were left in Kuwait. My mom's old friend had all her teeth pulled out, & all her finger & toenails ripped off.
I'm not sure if it's a smart thing to do posting this information on the internet. Oh well.
BTW, a news anchor today said that "the best way to get around Manhattan right now, is on a bike."
|re: Its too soon to tell...but I hope everyone is okay||pjkad|
Sep 11, 2001 4:53 PM
|Having spent today in New York City, and hours waiting on line for a ferry to get out of Manhattan there is something you'd all appreciate. Bikers were out in large numbers. It was the only way to get around and I saw many people on bikes getting to lower Manhattan to help. I was proud to see it. New Yorkers are great, and there was a quite resolve to be polite to each other and almost a comraderie as we went about what we had to do. I am exhuasted, but home (in NJ). I look forward to getting on my bike to clear my mind.|
|If this is indeed Bin Laden & Co.||nova|
Sep 11, 2001 5:26 PM
|then it is Ethnocentrism to the extreme, wouldn't you say so, Kristin & BJ?
I vote for ending the snide "fat, dumb, movie-watching American" rehtoric every time a US-based RBR board member posts something which doesn't demonstrate complete sensitivity and awareness of all cultural, political, and economic situations on the globe today.
It's no longer fashionable.
|for evil to survive!||cycleguy|
Sep 11, 2001 7:17 PM
|"Don't become further victims. Let's move on and let those who deal with such things deal with them. Let's return to our passion and enjoy lives, maybe counting our blessings as more precious than ever before."
We have to deal with such things today and tomorrow. We are all victims and must respond. Yes by moving on, but by also responding! Life as we know it, as Americans and in the rest of the world, has forever changed! To believe otherwise is to allow this to happen again. We are witness to the most horrific attack in the history of this country! And I also say in a supposed context of world peace as well! I'm sorry but my passion is great, to say I should just go and ride my bike, think like Mandela, is also an insult. I have compassion for many. But I look at this great country and all who have died in the past two great wars. And those who have died today and I say enough is enough. Again I say for evil to prevail good men must do nothing. We have done nothing long enough.
Yes, I know this is a cycling board. But it is also a community of living and breathing people worldwide. Today we are witness to perhaps the greatest attack on humanity the world has know.
|What a shocker||I Love Shimano|
Sep 11, 2001 7:49 PM
|I never imagined someone could do this. Went home last night hoping to watch the Vuelta live, but instead, got news footage (live) from Nuevo York (TV Espanol). Once I realized it was live and serious, I quickly switched to CNN. What a shocker.
My fellow Filipinos and I pray for the lives lost yesterday.
|Reflections on WT & this post.||Len J|
Sep 12, 2001 4:07 AM
|I am a jumble of mixed feelings right now. Anger, sorrow, helplessness, pessimism, confusion, worry and sadness are all taking turns skewing my view of reality. Through all this there are several thoughts that keep returning that I'd like to share.
Understanding. What has struck me the most is that I just don't understand this as an act of human will. An individual, chose to actively hijack a plane full of people & calmly run it into a building full of people. I don't understand where the passion comes from to do this. It is soo far from any reality base with which I'm familiar, that I find myself numb thinking about it. What combination of experience, religious training programming and human self view allows someone to develop a world view that makes this act feel like the right thing to do? We speak of the Jihad as the root cause, this idea of heavan attainment, but if that were all there was, we would mave millions of muslims doing this. The truth is we don't. there is more going on than this.
Condesension. This won't be popular, but I think that we in the U.S. (myself included) view what happens routinely in other parts of the world (terrorism), as Armageddon when it happens here. This is naive. I think that what happened yesterday is that the world got smaller. Unfortunatly, in our human fraility, it takes an extreme act to wake us up. What we choose to do about it will shape the world for years to come.
Choices. There are, it seems to me, two fundamentaly different responses that we (as a country) can make. One is retaliation. It sure will feel good in the short term, but what kind of world will we have when we are done? The other is to try to figure out the real root causes of this action. Maybe it's poverty, maybe it's "Have's vs have not's", maybe it's disinframchising (sp?) large groups of people around the world. I don't pretend to have the answer. But I think that figuring out and adressing the real issue underlying this passion is the only way to ensure the safety of our children & thier children. This approach will be much more difficult, take more time, and not feel as good in the short term, but, Most real solutions tend to be the same way. The choice is ours.
I process my thoughts either verbally or in writing. This has helped me clarify some of the jumble that is running around in my head. Thanks for letting me get it out.
I took the time last night to personally connect with every individual who is an important part of my life. This act has caused me to appreciate thier presence more than I did before. I hope each of you can take a positive out of this madness.