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Sep 9, 2001 3:29 PM
ok after looking for awhile I decided Ultegra is the best components for the price - but some people have recommended a Litespeed frame (which is $1620 for the frame) (and $3075 with ultegra group OUCH). Then I cam across a Motobecane le Champion I could get with Ultegra for $1095; so if I moved the parts to the Litespeed I could be at $2715 and have a frame to sell. Well that sounded good until I ask Litespeed the weight of their frame which turned out to be
1/2 lb more than the Motobecane. So way even change frames?
Confusing as hell - Am I missing some mystery element that is worth $2000 ? seems there is little rational information out there - just a lot of smoke - anyone got straight facts?
Sep 9, 2001 4:24 PM
I guess it boils down to what you want in a frame. I like to break down this type of purchasing decision into 3 parts; frameset and fork, component group, wheelset and saddle,bars,stem. I have heard and believe that if you ride more than 10,000 miles a year then Durace is your component of choice for Shimano parts. So it sounds as though you have already made that choice to go Ultegra. I am unfamiliar with the Motobecane frame you mention and Litespeed, which frame? Why Litespeed? Alot of other possibilities out there that could get you on a Ti bike for a little over $2K. Lots of very nice steel for less than that. No need to justify why Litespeed (great frames), but a huge dollar gap between the 2 leads me to believe that you can't justify the $2K price gap. Very understandable. What are the size and geometric differences between the 2 frames, which will fit you better? What type of riding are you doing or planning? Do you need a $1620 frameset? All are questions to answer before laying out that much cash.
Sep 10, 2001 1:07 AM
Thank you, your response is well thought out. True I will probably not ride anywhere near 10,000 miles a year {maybe 100 a week} So the $2000 does seem a little over board
thanks again
Sep 9, 2001 6:53 PM
Yep, Litespeed is really overpriced. I call it Titanium jewelry. It's not that they are bad bikes, but I hate getting robbed.

I certainly would at least try the Motobecane for a while and also test ride a Litespeed and see if can feel a $2000 difference.
Sep 9, 2001 9:43 PM
This seems very similar to the post from last week.

I'm thinking of having a webpage where I say that I'm selling Dura Ace equipped 2.5lb Al frames for $1499. A mere $500 deposit will secure one of these beauties, delivery in 6 months. Then I'll post under a variety of different nicks innocent questions like " Gee I found this great deal, is an Ultegra Cannondale that much better?". If I get 1,000 chumps I could take a couple of years off (and change my screenname of course).

So, in answer to your question. "Is a bike that doesn't exist yet, at least not for 4-5 months if ever, better than a more expensive bike that I can ride now?" Depends, send me $500 and I'll email you the answer.
Sep 10, 2001 1:04 AM
what the heck are you talking about? The Motobecane is in a store and the Litespeed is on the web -- does that matter? True I can look at and test the Motobecane and there is no Litespeed in my area to test -- and what was your point on the Dura Ace bike - ?
Sep 10, 2001 5:02 AM
Chuck ... I think you've reached a good conclusion regarding components ... Ultegra is a good value.

On the frame issue ... The Moto is probably an aluminium frame. These are cheap to manufacture and can be made quite light. The lighter the frame, the more prone it would be to breaking. Aluminium doesn't have the nice ride of titanium either. But you do pay for titanium. There are cheaper bikes out there than LS, but LS makes a good bike. Look for one on close-out for a better price. Colorado Cyclist had some as did Labicicletta.

As far as buying the Moto, and putting the components on a different frame, forget it. Do you have the skills to do it? Are the headsets the same size? What if the fork on the Moto is cut too short? Are the bottom brackets threaded the same way on each bike? How much is someone going to pay you for a Moto frame? In the end, it'll cost you more. Always buy a bike built the way you want it. Its cheaper in the end.
Sep 10, 2001 5:51 AM
Hmm, didn't know that Motobecane was actually sold in stores. Which store is that? So far we've only seen it on the web at that price (no I won't post the link).
So apart from the Ultegra group all the other components are the same too? Wheels, bars, stem, seat, seatpost, tires, etc? Wow that IS a great deal.
Of course a lot of people don't give a fig about 1/2lb of weight in a frame, no sense in having the lightest bike in town if your fillings drop out after a ride and you have to limit your ride time.
I wonder why the bike shop hasn't done what you thought of? They could probably strip the bikes down, swap out the Ultegra to another frame or sell it separately, sell the frames off cheap and still make more money.
Sep 10, 2001 7:50 AM
I do not know where you live, but I got my Motobecane mountain bike at a dealer in Southern Ca -- huntington beach to be exact. I guess not every brand is sold everywhere --
Sep 10, 2001 6:28 AM
Chuck, I understand your question about effectively getting an Ultegra group and a few other parts by cannibalizing a low-price bike. I'm not sure you'll really save money, though, because you may end up with a bunch of leftovers you don't want to use and can't sell.
I think the main issue, though, is what kind of frame you really want.
As you know, early and low-end aluminum frames developed a well-deserved reputation for harshness. As designers learned more about working with the materials available to them, however, they developed techniques for tuning the ride to meet their demands. Unfortunately, those techniques are often expensive both to develop, and then to manufacture.
I don't know any of the specs of the Kinesis frame that Motobecane uses, but it IS a low-priced piece from overseas. Also, Kinesis forks are not the lightest or highest regarded you can find.
I'd strongly suggest that you find a frame you can live with for a few years, and make sure you ride it before you buy so you can determine fit, handling, and ride characteristics. Only after you've found the right frame should you lock in a drivetrain group. Keep in mind that you can often upgrade group components separately. For example, many people prefer 105 shifters to Ultegra, and they're cheaper, too. You could also go with a 105 front derailleur, and an Ultegra rear.
The bottom line is that frame design is more important than frame material, so make sure you're happy in that area. Any other component can be changed one at a time.
Good luck!
Sep 10, 2001 7:01 AM
Another question is, do you know if it's full Ultegra on the Motobecane? A lot of times on these pre packaged bikes, they will use just enough parts to say it's Ultegra and the rest are 105 or some no name crap.
As far as aluminum goes, I would stay away from it unless price is a huge consideration. A lot of the guys I ride with that have crashed aluminum frames end up with dents in the tubes. Some of them are just cosmetic but in a few instances, the frames had to be sent back for repair or replacement. In my opinion, the only reason not to get a titanium frame is price. If you can afford it, you won't be dissapointed.
Sep 10, 2001 8:17 AM
I bought a moto lechampion @ a shop in Mesa Az about a year ago and its been a great bike!Its a 2000 model and its been eveything I hoped for. Its full shimano ultegra components.I don`t know about the 2001 but it looks great on there site!