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Wow (Litespeeds and such)(29 posts)

Wow (Litespeeds and such)bill
Sep 6, 2001 7:24 AM
I just finally took a gander at the sprawling thread below about Litespeeds and who loves and who hates them and why. Holy smokes. You would think that there was something important going on.
Isn't it obvious that there are a zillion people out there with a zillion different reasons for selecting a bikeand its parts from among the zillions of choices available? If one set of reasons are important to you, you select bike A. If another, you select bike B. Isn't that what's cool about this sport? To me, cycling is this really fun mix of exercise, being outdoors, community, style, and nifty engineering, not necessarily in any particular order (or, let's say an order that changes depending on whatever). I don't think that it's very much different for everyone else, so CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? (SOB!)
People choose on a spectrum of style and substance. Bikes (can, and most under discussion here, do) have plenty of both. In the final anaylsyis, for everyone here, doesn't the style eventually come to override the substance (both positively and negatively)? I would think that there are very few people on this board choosing only style, but everyone on this board is choosing on style some -- what is the difference among some of these equipment choices other than, really, a sense of style. So what? For anyone to say that style doesn't or shouldn't matter is as silly as someone else who resents someone else's sense of style. You may not agree, but, resent it?
About all anyone can say about any of it is to discuss intelligently why this or that reason matters to you, which can be interesting, being a community of cyclists and all (I don't know if this last is ironic or not). Speaking for myself, I do want to know why you love bike A, and I want to know why you hate bike B. Your reasons may make sense to me; they may not. I like bikes, so I'm willing to listen, and hopefully I'll learn something. But, lighten up (to be fair, not everyone gets heavy). They're bikes for heavens sake.
I actually do have a passing interest in what image you think that is portrayed with ride choices -- hell, you may even be right about some of it. (In fact, I own a Litespeed with Record. I bought the Litespeed on a respected rider's recommendation -- I had never heard of it before so I beg off on that one -- but, if I were a better rider with more experience and confidence in my own image on the road, would I have chosen to upgrade to Record? A fair question. I also am, apparently, a whiny lawyer, so, there.) It's armchair (or saddle) sociology. What you think says something about the equipment and maybe something about you, and what I think of it all says something about me. But I would like to think that we can discuss it all civilly.
Well, I'm sort of rambling on about the obvious, but I just want to say that opinions, like a**holes, may all stink, but they really only stink when they're in your face (ewww).
opinions and a-holesJack S
Sep 6, 2001 7:31 AM
unfortunately, the prevailing air (pun intended) that I get here is that "everyone has one, and yours stinks and mine doesn't"
the other sad thing is is that, if you go ahead and let on thatbill
Sep 6, 2001 7:49 AM
your opinion may stink, and you ask rather than tell, the pack of dogs will pounce because you don't already know better. After a year on this board, I finally have come to learn that you'll never win with some of these guys, and that winning isn't really the point, anyway. So, let it go. Well, I'm still working on that last part (big boys don't cry. big boys don't cry).
this topic sure does bring out someInsupportofLazy
Sep 6, 2001 8:52 AM
emotions. The last main argument about this topic got ugly. I have to agree with that guy Lazyrider(althoug he doesn't go about it the right way) that it is annoying that people are willing to make broad assumptions about kind of person you must be to ride a Litespeed.
It is even more juvenile to judge others based upon that ridiculous critieria than Lazy's vulgar responses. It is entertaining at times , but it is getting old now. If the bashers can come up with a legitimate reason to bash Litespeed (ie. huge frame failures, and defects), then I don't think there would be such bickering. The superficial comments of the bashers are simply as obnoxious as this guys Lazy's responses.
I don't ride Litespeed, but i have friends that have them and they are far from poseurs or yuppies. The company isn't as huge as everyone thinks, and they are awesome bikes. So I think those who make statements about this guy Lazy being juvenile better look at their own comments again to see the immaturity in your own way of thinking.
Rethink who is perpetuating this ongoing argument and you will see that it is invariably started by the bashers.
are YOU Lazyrider?!nm
Sep 6, 2001 8:54 AM
No, I am not LazyInsupportofLazy
Sep 6, 2001 9:20 AM
and I expected that question. I just tend to agree with the core of his position, not the way he goes about expressing himself. Sorry, but he is right about the silly way people categorize others by something as ridiculous as the frame they chose to ride.
I always post under my regular name, but in this case I don't want to get into a endless argument about this topic as I have good rapport with others. Re-read Lazy's posts and forget about the name calling and tell me honestly that he doesn't have a point. He needs to refrain from the name calling and he may get his point across better.
Sep 6, 2001 12:14 PM
Sep 6, 2001 1:57 PM
who are you referring to when you say "WE"? Do you have multiple personalities? The guy explained who he was. Is it so difficult to believe that someone could find some reason in what I say? I would tell you were were a douchebag, but you already know the answer to that.
Bill, how dare you call us SOB's :-) :-) (nm)ET
Sep 6, 2001 8:44 AM
most of the thread missed the pointDog
Sep 6, 2001 9:18 AM
I understood the point of the orignal post to be "why is there a controvery?", rather than asking about the actual merits of Litespeeds. People got sidetracked, and seemed to interpret some people's potential explanations for the controversy as adopting those positions - sort of let the emotions run wild. Nonetheless, it's a big "so what?"

the problem is that we're dealing with people, and people suck.Spiritual Haiku
Sep 6, 2001 10:03 AM
people will be people: prejudiced, judgemental, biased, and set in their ways and ideals. once one of these animals (i'm one, too) makes up its mind, viola! [sic], the truth matters not. i would ride a litespeed because it's a high-end titanium bike (this is not bait) and there's a chance i could get a nice deal on it through the manufacturer via a friend. does this make me an elitist pig with money to burn and no time on the bike, geared up for club rides to show off the frame and grouppo and hang at the back when the pace picks up? one look in my modest garage will hint otherwise. everyone has their own story. all the judgemental responses to the litespeed and other posts are based on assumption. because you (not YOU) could name fifteen such riders on $4500 litespeeds riding them for the brand value alone is not a fair indicator of the "bloodline" of litespeed customers. speaking of assumptions, i realize i've made a few's impossible, eh? oh, yeah--i'm people, too (mostly).

there are far better things to discuss. beer, for one. people should just go ride.
An ice cold Corona w/ a lime. Is it 5:00 yet? nmSpinchick
Sep 6, 2001 10:43 AM
Corona???!!!Jack S
Sep 6, 2001 10:48 AM
They SuCK! That's the worst beer company, totally over-rated, ultrahyped POS for people with fat wallets who never drink and just sit around posing with a half-empty bottles- what's that matter with you people?!

Does any beer come in Titanium cans (not made in China)? nmMB1
Sep 6, 2001 10:54 AM
Ti is too flexy...Jack S
Sep 6, 2001 11:08 AM
gotta use aluminum for stiffness
Yes, but...Cliff Oates
Sep 6, 2001 11:42 AM
The redemption deposit is $300 per can.
That would encourage recycling. nmMB1
Sep 6, 2001 11:49 AM
For a minute there I thought the Troll was back :-). nmSpinchick
Sep 6, 2001 10:57 AM
Hey! Watch it chickie! :-) nmJack S
Sep 6, 2001 10:59 AM
CHICKIE????? Of all the ...Spinchick
Sep 6, 2001 11:04 AM
just kidding!
I think the Troll is too embarrassed ever to return nmDog
Sep 6, 2001 6:55 PM
at least as Trollman/Thioderek - nmnm
Sep 6, 2001 8:13 PM
He's still making life miserable on mtbreviewMike
Sep 6, 2001 8:38 PM
I just looked over there and Trollman lives. His evil creator Thiodorek sure sucked us all in with his epic tale of the 240 mile trek on a PB&J and a 12-oz can of Mountain Dew. Oh well, they livened things up for a while.
pete's wicked ale and a mug, hold the mug. 4:00 yet? =) NMSpiritual Haiku
Sep 6, 2001 11:00 AM
re: Wow (Litespeeds and such)jaybird
Sep 6, 2001 10:48 AM
It's good to see that someone understood (maybe even laughed at) the jist of my last post on that chaotic string about Litespeeds.

I think it would be interesting to see everyone on that messageboard debate the same subject in person. well maybe not, then ya'll would see that I am actually 5'2" and 412lbs. But I would still be able to outdrink all of the punks on the MTB board.

Vaya con dios...
Why I don't like LightspeedAlpedhuez55
Sep 6, 2001 11:02 AM
When Lightspeed bought Merlin, the Merlin workers went to work on Monday Morning only to be greeted by a police officer guarding locked doors. This angered a lot of people in the Boston Cycling Comunity. Merlins just do not sell in Boston anymore. Now Seven is the Ti bike of choice around Boston and Independent Fabrication's new offereings also look great.

While I am sure Lightspeeds are great bikes, I could not buy one after that. It would have been a different story if they phased out production of Merlins. By their actions they showed that they rather than build a Merlin, they wanted to slap a Sticker on a Lightspeed and call it a Merlin.
Sep 6, 2001 11:38 AM
I heard that they offered the Merlin welders jobs in the TN factory, but none of them went. Hmmm, Tennessee or Boston ... I could understand that. I also read that the production line of these two bikes are essentually separate with Merlin still getting two pass welds while LS stuck with single pass. So Merlins are not a re-stickered LS.

I admit, LS was bought by an investor who wants to make money. Its not a family operation anymore. Following the Trek example, he appears to be buying the competition up. I can't say I think that's too cool. I hate that about Trek. Whatever the case, they still are good bikes. I have an Ultimate I picked up on close-out for quite a good price ($1600 for frame and Look HSC2 fork). I've been happy with it.

As long as you're riding something, who cares what it is? I can't understand this fixation with the "correct" bike to be riding. Is it better to be tooling around in your Lincoln Navigator?
Sep 6, 2001 5:17 PM
Hmmm...Boston or Tennessee...gotta say I like it better here in Tennessee. and I can visit my acquaintences at the Litespeed factory :).
Why I don't like LightspeedLarry Meade
Sep 7, 2001 5:38 AM
For clarification, the company that owns Litespeed, not Lightspeed, bought Merlin. Litespeed did not buy Merlin. Their (Merlin's and Litespeed's) parent company moved the production to Tenn. Your reasoning would be like blaming LeMond for some real or imagined slight Trek might inflict on Klein or Bontrager. To further clarify, There are two separate production lines in Tennessee. You would be very hard pressed to tell a difference between a pre-buyout Merlin and a Tennessee Merlin. I think that the main reason people are going to Seven now is that most of the people that made Merlin a great bike are now at Seven. It is also an excellent frame.