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What's up with this?.......(16 posts)

What's up with this?.......Len J
Sep 4, 2001 7:00 AM
Riding buddy has a 1.5 yr old Lightspeed Classic Full D/A. He is a heavy sweat machine. This past week one of his Cable stops (on the Downtube was so corroded from sweat that it broke off (I was there, he went to do a minor adj & it just broke off). He took it to the local LBS & after total dismantle was told the other cable stop was ready to come off, and he has pitting in the frame (purportedly from sweat).

I thought titanium didn't corrode.

Are the cablestops on L/S made from some other material?

He is obviously going crazy & wants to know what to do. The LBS has been in touch with L/S who are sending replacement parts and told LBS how to fix (LBS felt they have had this problem before based on response from L/S).

Anyone else have this experience. Buddy needs help.

Bizarre metal ...Humma Hah
Sep 4, 2001 7:38 AM
Titanium generally just flat ignores salt water. In fact, salt water may actually be GOOD for it.

A couple of other things will ruin titanium. Just touching it with cadmium metal will induce a crack, for example (it takes a week or two to show up). It is also as subject to electrolysis as any other metal. Chlorinated organic solvents, things like trichloroethane or PERC, will induce intergranular corrosion of titanium.

The fact that the corrosion took place at a cable stop, where the cable could be in electrical contact with a ferrule or the cable core, an then to the stop, suggests electrolytic action: a battery was formed. I'd put a teflon-lined cable in, and use something like heat-shrinkable tubing to avoid contact between the cable end and the stop.

I'd want some satisfaction from L/S, but if it is not forthcoming, and it were my bike, I'd epoxy stops on with JB-weld epoxy.
Bizarre metal ...Len J
Sep 4, 2001 7:44 AM
I think L/S recommened retapping for the Cable stops, but I'm not sure. I'll check with LBS.

What would create the electricity for the electrolisis (sp)?
Dissimilar metals in an electrolyte ...Humma Hah
Sep 4, 2001 11:33 AM
Take a piece of steel, a piece of titanium, dunk them into salt water, and you'd have a battery. The voltage produced would be predicted by looking up iron and titanium on the electromotive series of most basic chemistry books.
Is this an achilles heel for Titanium?Len J
Sep 4, 2001 11:53 AM
Or is this a freak occurance?

I have heard over and over again how "Bulletproof Titanium is, is this not true?

I was really shocked (not because it was a Lightspeed :)) but because it was titanium.

What would you reccomend? Thanks, I feel like I'm learning something.

For any dissimilar metals ...Humma Hah
Sep 4, 2001 12:01 PM
I believe it is worse for the aluminum/steel combo, but I'm not sure.

It is one good argument for carbon.

I'd have to say this is a very rare problem, only annoying, and easy to fix if you understand it.
Lessons learnedmr_spin
Sep 4, 2001 12:09 PM
The lesson here is don't ride your Titanium frame in the ocean next to some other guy riding his steel frame. Unless you want to produce electricity.

Titanium used in frames is not pure titanium. It's typically alloyed with Vanadium. That makes the equations a little more complicated.

Keep in mind the human component in frame building. I'd investigate that before I'd write off a whole class of frames. My titanium frame has been flawless for almost four years now, and as long as the roving bands of cadmium wielding thugs leave me alone, it will last for many more years.
where can I get a piece of cadmium metal?slack
Sep 4, 2001 8:53 AM
Ni-Cad batteries...mr_spin
Sep 4, 2001 9:15 AM
The cad in ni-cad is cadmium. You'll also find cadmium in cigarette smoke.... Not the healthiest of stuff.

Just stay away from my Litespeed!
Symptoms of cadmium poisoning ...Humma Hah
Sep 4, 2001 11:39 AM
Some Japanese living downstream from a ni-cad factory with sloppy waste-handling discovered how bad this stuff is. It substitutes for calcium in the bones, but the bones then have no strength. In extreme cases, the victim sort of shrivels up into a ball.

The name they have for this ailment, translated into English, is "It hurts! It hurts!"
Ni-Cad batteries...MG
Sep 4, 2001 12:46 PM
So If I ride my Ti bike at night while using a nightrider Ni-Cad battery, it will be damaged?

Sep 4, 2001 1:24 PM
would it be a mean trick to "plug in" my ni-cad battery to a friend's ti bike?
Don't worrymr_spin
Sep 4, 2001 1:25 PM
Unless your batteries are leaking, you don't need to worry. If your batteries are leaking, they probably don't work very well, in which case you aren't using them.

Niterider now uses Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) batteries on most of its systems, so if you are still worried, upgrade your system!
Cadmium plating is used on some industrial fasteners ...Humma Hah
Sep 4, 2001 11:36 AM
... and used to also be put on some tools used by the military. The Air Force discovered this was not such a hot idea. They kept getting cracks in the skin of the SR-71, finally noticed they occurred any place a nut, bolt, or tool had touched the aircraft.
re: What's up with this?.......MrCelloBoy
Sep 4, 2001 7:48 AM
I think some cable stops are sometimes riveted onto the frame with aluminum.
re: What's up with this?.......ashleyrenfroe
Sep 4, 2001 8:37 AM
Another great argument for staying with steel or aluminum!!!

Kidding. I do like Ti and I am just a jealous sumbich cause I don't have one.