|Question about ride "quality" of Giant TCR frames||JohnG|
Jun 12, 2001 8:18 PM
|I'm curious if there are any 150# riders out there who have compared a med TCR and Caad4-5 rides?
As a frame of reference, I've had a bit of experience with an 01 caad5 and didn't particularly like the feel of the front end. However, since the Giant is about a pound lighter than the Dale I would assume that the frame is a bit smoother.....???? Any comments???
|re: it's not the frame||cyclopathic|
Jun 12, 2001 8:43 PM
|it's tire pressure/fork/Hbar/gloves. (did I mention stem too?)
Anyways 20psi less up front, carbon handlebar or cushier tape/gloves would make more difference IMHO and no Giant frame is not noodle, almost Cdale like stiff.
|don't agree at all!||JohnG|
Jun 13, 2001 8:33 AM
|The frame is THE most important factor in bike feel. IMHO, tires and pressure are at best of secondy importance. I've proven this to myself by swapping my wheels/tires around between different bikes. For example, the difference was astounding between between my 853 bike and the Dale. And surprisingly the 853 frame "sprints" just as good as the Dale... for me that is. I found the Dale rode similar to the 853 when I dropped the tire pressure about 15-20# on the front and 10# on the back. Not a good solution!! |
The "almost Cdale like stiff" comment is encouraging though....
Jun 13, 2001 3:43 PM
|you compare 2 Al frames, not steel vs Al or Ti.
Giant ride is not as harsh as some of Al bikes (long exposed carbon seatpost and carb fork) yet when stand on my TCR-1 the only flex I could notice in TTT bars. But I am only 140lbs, so..
still bet bars/stem/SP/tire pressure would alter ride quality of Al frame more then diff btw 2 avg Al frames nowdays
|wait a second...||Hank|
Jun 12, 2001 9:41 PM
|you asked this a while back about an AL Colnago, too - right? You're gonna get a bunch of answers like the one cyclopathic gave - I think I gave a similar answer last time, too. Just get the Giant. It'll be fun. And didn't you also just get a Dean road bike? How many bikes do you buy a season, anyway? (including mtbs...)|
Jun 13, 2001 8:18 AM
|The bike list is a moving target. I usually buy and sell one-two frames a year. |
The current list is as follows:
98? Dean 853 with Daytona: daily bike.... great bike but that never kept me from selling before.... ;) This is the frame I want to replace with perhaps the Giant Once frame.
01 Colnago MasterX with Record/Chorus: Just finishing the build... will be the nice weather weekend club bike.
00 Dean Jester MTB: #1 mtb ride Primo ride!!! :)
Giant NRS AIR mtb: not built yet
Ti HT MTB: loaner for riding ptnrs
Ross steel HT: loaner for riding ptnrs
Oh, I'm thinking of ordering either a Prince or C40 later this year. I'm leaning toward the Prince right now..... can never have enough Italian hw.
Jun 13, 2001 9:50 AM
|have you seen the new De Rosa UD? I think that would be my top pic for a lightweight Italian frame at the moment.
I do think that the Giant would be a cool bike if it fit properly. I'm somewhere between the Medium and the Large, though.
I have a Merckx, plus a custom road frame, a Bontrager cross and a Ibis Mojo. I'd love to add a NRS or Superlight to the list, along with a Steelman road and a Sycip cross bike, or maybe a Gunnar Street Dog. I don't like selling my bikes, though - had the Bontrager for 15 years.
|I have one||Duane Gran|
Jun 13, 2001 5:31 AM
|I have a Giant TCR and I have test ridden the CAAD5 frame. I find the Giant to be a smoother ride and it is just as responsive. The Cannondale is still a nice frame. I would just test ride both of them as two people can have entirely different opinions.|
|I have one||JohnG|
Jun 13, 2001 8:05 AM
|Thanks for the input! I did own an 01 caad5 frame for about 3 months.... sold it recently to a racer. It was a good "race" frame but not a good "daily" bike for me. I think the Dales are overbuilt for my weight. |
I'm looking for a very light frame that won't beat me up.... and the Giant might fit that bill. Wish they would make more sizes though.
|I have one||Duane Gran|
Jun 13, 2001 10:26 AM
|I agree about the size issue. I feel lucky that the large frame fits me so nicely. I have recommended the bike to others. I think it is great for crits and technical courses because it corners so deftly.|
Jun 13, 2001 2:24 PM
|Yeah, I REALLY like the 01 EV2's! However, like the TCR I'm right in between sizes with it. The 53 is a bit small and the 55 is a bit big. :( Likewise, on the TCR I'm right at the very limit of proper fit with the medium. The small is way to small. |
|I don't understand being "in-between sizes" with the TCRs.||boy nigel|
Jun 13, 2001 4:20 PM
|The whole point of the limited-issue sizing with the TCR range was so that virtually anyone could ride the frames. Is it top-tube length that you're concerned with? Why not get a longer stem if one size's frame is too short in the top tube, or a shorter stem if the reverse is true? Is it seat height that's the problem? Giant makes seven sizes of seatpost, each usable with any size frame they make.
If you're a tall person with a shorter inseam, you'd get a large frame with one of their shorter seatposts; or, you could get a medium frame with a longer seatpost. I don't get how all of the variables (seatpost length/height, stem length, and fore-aft saddle positioning) can be ALL wrong, rendering the TCR line "unfit" for certain people.
Please explain; I'm interested, and curious, not disputing what you and others have said. My TCR fits me fine, and I'd just swap out a seatpost or a stem here or there if it didn't, customizing the fit.
Thanks for your explanation,
|I don't understand being "in-between sizes" with the TCRs.||JohnG|
Jun 13, 2001 8:28 PM
|My "perfect" fit is the following 54cm ctt seat tube, 54cm ctc top tube, with a 74 degree seat tube. The small TCR has a shorter tt and a shallower angle (makes for a shorter effective tt). The small frame is way too small! I was also warned by other very knowledgeble folks (both TCR owners and the shop I deal with) that the small would fit me like an ultra compact bmx bike. I've also seen more than a couple of small TCR's for sale because they didn't fit right. |
Now.... the medium has a 55.5 ctc tt with a 73.5 degree. This is effectively a 55.2cm tt (with a 74 deg seat tube) ..... this is probably OK but it would put me on a 11 cm stem at best. I'd prefer to use a 12 cm stem as that puts the CG in a better postion. OK, maybe I quibling but I've had LOTs of bikes and I know what fits me .... again, the medium is probably OK but it's certainly not ideal. :(
Oh, the seat post issue is not an issue at all. I could give a RA about that. I wouldn't use the Giant seat post anyway. All I want is the frame from Giant.....
IMHO, the TCR size selection sucks and it's only done that way to save money for Giant. Looks like a sweet ride though.... sigh.
|I think I see now...||boy nigel|
Jun 14, 2001 11:37 AM
|though it seems that you're being a bit nit-picky about one centimeter's worth of stem length. I'm not trying to convert you, John, or trying to defend my choice in bikes, so please don't read me wrong with this. You ride what you feel is best for you; no problem with that here.
Again, it seems that many people who ride compact frames (in particular Giant's three frame sizes) have made the decision to simply use a slightly longer or shorter stem to get the exact same on-bike position as they had with a traditional frame. As long as all of the math works out, there is absolutely nothing wrong with an 11cm stem, unless you don't like the LOOKS of an 11cm stem. 11cm isn't considered super-short for a stem, anyway, and it looks barely different than a 12cm (we're talking one cm here).
I guess people who complain about not being able to fit on TCRs have these sorts of problems; that's too bad, since the line was designed to mix and match stems and seatpost lengths to accommodate virtually everyone but the tallest and shortest. Maybe you'd "give up" a centimeter of stem length, but you'd still fit perfectly on the bike frame. Giant's whole philosophy was to make three sizes (call 'em cheap, but their idea is pretty sound) to fit almost everyone by "accessorizing." By adding more sizes, they'd need to do away with the range of seatposts and stems. They're excellent-riding bikes; too bad.
Thanks for explaining, though, and taking the time.
|I think I see now...||JohnG|
Jun 14, 2001 6:47 PM
|Thanks for the comments..... I'm actually still VERY close to placing the order for the medium! :) |
As far as the "exact same position".... I do disagree with you on that just a smidge. A too big frame with a compensatory short stem will neccessarily put the CG back on the bike. This isn't a show stopper on a road frame but it is a BIG deal on a MTB. That's my background so maybe I'm a bit overly sensitive to this issue.
Good rides JohnG
|Gotcha, JG.||boy nigel|
Jun 14, 2001 8:13 PM
"CG"? Is that center of gravity? Seriously, I'm not sure what you mean by CG.
So you're close to getting the medium, eh? Again, the bike really has a SMOOTH ride, handles quickly (as in "good quickly," not "bad quickly"), and is stiff and efficient. Not to mention, it's pretty darned easy on the eyes (Pedestrians comment how nice it looks ALL the time!).
Oh yeah: why wouldn't you get that great aero carbon seatpost? It's designed to work as a complete package with the aluminum tubes, I've heard, and it sure looks stunning. I'm plenty happy with mine, anyway. It's got a great micro-adjustment system which allows fore/aft positioning with a standard screw and nose-tile micro-adjustments with a small wheel-shaped knob.
Good luck, happy shopping, and enjoy the ride (ANY ride you decide to get).
Jun 15, 2001 2:03 PM
Yes, I was referring to 'center of gravity'. Makes a HUGE diference on a MTB but I guess I'd have a hard time arguing that it is so important on a road bike. Bottom line.... if the CG is too far back (frame too big) the bike will understeer. On a MTB this means the front end will "wash out". On a road bike I "think" it means that the bike will be just a bit slugish through turns. I'm probably being a bit anal about this.
IMHO, the Giant carbon post looks a bit funky to me. I've never liked any of the big aero seat posts. Oh well....
I just sold my main ride so now I can justify the TCR. :) I'm going to hunt one down this weekend and get a test ride. If it is somewhat smoother than the Caad5 Dale then it's mine!
good rides JohnG
|Sounds like you're really into it, then. I wasn't so sure...||boy nigel|
Jun 15, 2001 4:44 PM
|judging by your first post on this. I haven't tested a Caad5, but I know my TCR2's a smoothie!
I understand your CG points clearly; well done.
Have a great test ride, and then buy the thing! ;)