|What is with all the hate?||justaguy|
Aug 9, 2001 10:56 PM
|There seems to be a recuring theme of hate and flaming going on in the bike community that one can see all around us in society. Why are bikers allowing ourselves to be sucked into the de-evolution that is going on in the rest of society, which looks like it will only end when everyone has finally killed each other. Motorists injuring bikers is a hot topic here, but bikers are doing it to themselves pretty harsh too. Not as bad as the MTB boards (man i've given up going there, at least the insults are legible here) but still people flaming those with expensive bikes, people flaming newbies with crap bikes, the epic shimano campy wars, retro grouches insulting anything new, singlespeeders insulting... well, pretty much everyone... (sorry, but i have to add that it IS partly the bike, not just the rider)
If the sport is going to grow beyond a sport struggling for attention and known only for geeky clothes and drug scandals, then we are gonna have to be nice about it for a change. Imagine what could happen if everyone (including the companies) stopped trying to backstab everyone else and got along for a change.
Aug 9, 2001 11:25 PM
|the petty thought/action is always petty. insolent behavior is distasteful. BUT humor can ALWAYS be used in an offensive way to get a point across. BE NICE BUT LAUGH AT YOURSELVES|
|re: What is with all the hate?||Dougal|
Aug 10, 2001 12:42 AM
|Its funny, and I don't mean this in a nasty way because I loved my last few trips to the States, but the only times I've ever seen this kind of thing happen is in US based message boards. There's a couple of UK based ones that I visit now and again, and there just isn't the same snobbery, no little snide comments, no trolls just looking to p1ss people off.
Its a shame really, this forum was a lot more relaxed and friendly about a year ago...
|reflection of a society gone astray...||keith m.|
Aug 10, 2001 5:12 AM
|All you have to do is turn on the T.V. durring the so called 'family hour' and see all the wise ass and demeaning humor directed at one another. This is a generation that not only has been raised on it, but has an appetite for it. Civility is dead!|
|Very very true...||Mabero|
Aug 10, 2001 5:22 AM
|The United States:
Most watched T.V. sports broadcasts : Golf, Nascar, (and on the list) WWF.
|it's just the internet||Dog|
Aug 10, 2001 5:51 AM
|I think the perceived hate is apparent simply because of the internet. People are somewhat anonymous, distant, and feel they can say whatever they want, without recourse or responsiblity. I'd think that 99% of the junk that gets spewed on these internet forums would never happen face to face. There would be a lot of beat up people.
If you'll notice, the long time posters who everyone knows who they are rarely, if ever, display the sort of hate or anymosity that the newer anonymous people do. Maybe some people just have to vent, and they choose internet forums to do so. I've been around long enough to see many of them come and go. They usually cause trouble for a few weeks, get bored with it, or see that we just won't tolerate it, and then they disappear.
Call them on the carpet for it, but don't respond in kind. People can call us thin-skinned all they want, but it usually results in a more civil discussion.
Aug 10, 2001 6:33 AM
|A good example of the behavior you describe is internal corporate communications. People will say things to their coworkers via email that they would never say around the water cooler.
However, I don't think it is restricted to email and bulletin board communications. People assume the same insular and hostile attitudes when they get behind the wheel of their cars. The assumption is that they are powerful and anonymous, and that they can mess with you (whether you are on foot, on a bike, or in a car) and can get away quickly.
|Second that...or third||TypeOne|
Aug 10, 2001 2:56 PM
|Just today I sat in on an employee being terminated for sending threatening emails to a co-worker, and they work 10 fee from each other and can see each other from their desks. Weird. Neither had spoken an unkind word to the other or anyone else in the office, but there was a papertrail of nastiness for management to see. It seemed out of character for both employees.
Maybe when you sit down and use the half of your brain dedicated to typing skills, the common-sense part of your brain shuts off. Civility is always lost in cyberspace, it seems.
|You're just seeing human nature as it is. [nm]||davidl|
Aug 10, 2001 6:20 AM
|It's the power of being anonymous....||DINOSAUR|
Aug 10, 2001 6:35 AM
|People say things they ordinary wouldn't as they are invisible.
Perhaps we are seeing the declining of our society at it's worse.
Having good manners is something you can't learn on the internet.
I remember the first time I posted here and my words came out all wrong and I stepped all over myself. We all have opinions and we are all here to learn. If we were experts we would be writing for VeloNews. In all my years of cycling I've only had one bad experience with a cyclist, and I think she was just having a bad hair day when it happened. Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing. Nothing works better than silence (my wife taught me that)....
|I agree but.....||Len J|
Aug 10, 2001 8:44 AM
|what then is the difference between those that communicate with such malice and those (like yourself) who post with class and humility? I think that it is a sense of personal responsibilty. You don't spew venom because you would not be happy with yourself if you did. No one else can impose that kind of control on you or anyone else other than yourself. Anonimity only lets loose the monster that is aready there (IMHO)|
|I agree but.....||DINOSAUR|
Aug 10, 2001 11:18 AM
|Thank you for those nice words. Another thought that I learned on another cycling forum is that if you wan't people to read your posts and value what you say, then you should take the time to pick and choose your words carefully. Otherwise you'll just be one of the posters who nobody takes seriously or bothers to read.
The heart of the wise man lies quite like limpid water.
Besides I'm retired, half the stress of life is gone for me....
|re: What is with all the hate?||dug|
Aug 10, 2001 6:52 AM
|We are NOT "bikers"
We are RIDERS.
"bikers" have harleys
|re: What is with all the hate?||Jon Billheimer|
Aug 10, 2001 7:58 AM
|Although the problem is collective, the solution is individual and personal. Each of us has to monitor his own heart, mind, and mouth. Making the world a better, more civil place to live starts with "me" cleaning up my own internal environment. "My" behaviour will then follow. This is something that is within the power of each of us to do. |
BTW, lots of good points in the above posts.
|Wow Jon....||keith m.|
Aug 10, 2001 8:37 AM
|personal responsibility. What a novel concept. I agree,it would be nice if we all had that attitude.|
|Wow Jon....||Jon Billheimer|
Aug 10, 2001 12:15 PM
|What with all the social and biological determinism flying around these days it has become, unfortunately, a novel concept. And isn't that sad? People have been making excuses I guess since time immemorial. It used to be "the devil made me do it!" Now it's "my brain chemistry put me in a dissociative state" or "I've got a social disease from growing up in X-ville." Whatever the external irritant, rude driver or immature flamer, I always have the choice as to how to respond or even whether to respond.|
|Uh, did you notice that you put down cyclists in your own post?||rayler|
Aug 10, 2001 8:47 AM
|MTBers cant write legibly? Do you think maybe if an MTBer read your post he would be inspired to put down roadies as freds? I think so.
Youre instigating it.
Average age at MTBr.com is probably 17-18.
Average age at RBR.com is probably 35.
Road riding doesnt appeal to a lot of young riders, hence the higher level of writing and communication at this site.
Yes, the anymosity of the internet also has something to do with the flagrant put downs.