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Experience's with stems, ie:Deda, ITM, Cinelli and 3T(11 posts)
|Experience's with stems, ie:Deda, ITM, Cinelli and 3T||Big Mig|
Aug 8, 2001 8:53 PM
|Whats everyone experience's with the lastest stems on the market such as ITM Millenennium, 3T Zepp, Cinelli Solido and the Deda Newton.
Any info on reliability, problems, likes, dislikes,etc, etc.
Whats your feelings on the Thompson road stem?. The Easton stems?. Thanks for your answers.
|Don't know about that but. . .||9WorCP|
Aug 9, 2001 4:58 AM
|I do not know the stems above but I just bought the new Ritchey WCS stem and think it is an engineering coup. Approx. 125g and SUPER stiff. It has been the single best improvement in my bike's ride since I started upgrading a year ago. My previous stem was the aptly titled Deda Zero stem and I had no idea what flimsy was until the Ritchey stem showed it up. I think the four bolt design is much stiffer than the more common 2 bolt setup.|
Aug 9, 2001 8:51 AM
|Yeah - the Ritchey WCS is pretty much a work of art compared to all the other stuff on the market. Light, stiff, and beautiful. Dunno why any one would want to take chances and mess with a solid billet hogged out on a CNC mill. |
BTW - The guy is asking the same question - different day. Apparently he didn't like the responses.
|re: Experience's with stems, ie:Deda, ITM, Cinelli and 3T||MeDotOrg|
Aug 9, 2001 8:03 AM
|I'm ordering a Thomson Road stem, largely on the laudatory reviews of their seatposts and mountain bike stems. As soon as I get some miles on it, I'll post a review. Bicycle Mag gave it 4 1/2 out of 5 stars (I know, I know, Bicycle Mag...)|
|For what it's worth...||peloton|
Aug 9, 2001 8:28 AM
|I still associate forged with being stronger than CNC. I was around the MTB scene when all that horrible boutique CNC stuff came out and started breaking- stems, cranks, you name it. The backlash on some of those products led me to believe what I heard about cold forging aligning the grain of the aluminum and taking out impurities for better strength. I'm no engineer, but it made sense and the forged stuff didn't break as much. I was also taken a little back when some of the new CNC road stuff came out. The Deda had problems with faceplates breaking, even US Postal had problems as I recall. Profile also had problems with their stems. To this day, I still go for the forged stuff- I run a 3T forgie personally.
I mean this post as constructive to your cause. I (and others too) would need some convincing to believe that a CNC machined parts can a viable alternative to forging for high stress componentry. I'm a 190lbs linebacker sort of guy though, and I favor stregth over light weight. Just a thought from one segment of the market though! Convince me though, I do think that Cinelli alter stem is nice looking!
PS- I do have a little experience in CNC work, and a shop wrench background.
|Call me stoopid, but what's CNC? nm||bill|
Aug 9, 2001 8:42 AM
|computer numerical control machining nm||ken vining|
Aug 9, 2001 8:53 AM
|For what it's worth...||Big Mig|
Aug 9, 2001 4:03 PM
|I was around also when all the "boutique" cnc products came out, and yes there were failures. The failures resulted from designing and manufacturing replacement parts that were too light, for example, Shimano and Suntour cranks at the time weight about 600-750 grams per set without chainrings, the cnc cranks that replaced them were around 370- 400 grams, that was a recipe for distaster. I believe you can make a cnc'ed part almost as strong as a forged part if done correctly with the right materials.
i believe the stems that had problems did not have have helicoils in the bolt holes, which I feel is a big mistake when using a 4mm bolt. Otherwise, I have not heard of any problems of failures, which leads me to post if anyone had.
BTW, in regards to an above post, I re-posted the same question, because I did'nt get any answers from anyone who actually used a stem in question, much less knew anything about them.
|with due respect||peloton|
Aug 9, 2001 7:04 PM
|I know you are researching to make a product here. It doesn't seem like you like the answers that you are getting in regards to your questions. I believe that this is viable information though. When bringing a product to market, the public perception matters. They are the people who you want to buy the product. My experience, and that of Grz I believe, is that CNC parts are associated with failure because of other products that have come to the market before yours. This may or may not be an implication that a CNC'ed part can't be of good performance. Thing is though, when I'm the guy in the shop saying, 'Hum... CNC'ed part huh? Bad association here.' it doesn't do well for the product. My contribution was that perhaps you should make strength a part of your design and marketing of this product. Fatigue cycles and examples of how strong the product is while at the same time maybe light and high performance would be the way to change the perception. There may not be a bunch of engineers here contributing a lot to the design of the product, but you do have the people who might buy the product here. It's an example of what the market thinks, so take it into consideration. Again, for what it's worth. Gotta convince me as a customer though, even if it isn't the info you thought you were going to get.|
|Thanks for your insight||Big Mig|
Aug 10, 2001 3:00 PM
|Peloton, I understand where your coming from, but Im not out to built a better mouse trap. The stems in question are all completely cnc'ed and are all the rage, just look at alot of bikes in your local club ride, race, bikeshop or magazine. I believe a cnc'ed part was a bad thing of the past, when light weight meant everything, now its light weight and durability. If you look at alot of bikes, mostly mountainbikes, you will find major frame parts ie: seat and chainstay yokes, suspension linkages that are completely cnc'ed, so I stil believe that, if done correctly, cnc'ed parts can be of the same strentgh as a forged part. A cnc'ed part designed and built correctly is alot better than a poorly designed forged part. The funny thing with most forged parts is, when it comes out of the forging press its at its best,with the grain being aligned, the problems come in when it gets machined or welded when it starts to lose the properties it started with in the first place.|
|Thanks for your insight||peloton|
Aug 10, 2001 3:44 PM
|Good point, it's all about the integrity of the design that provides performance for a product. A well designed product will always work better than a poor design. Good luck with the project.
Again FWIW- I'm impressed with the stems like the Race Face MTB which have no welds. They look clean, and the lack of welding leads me to think that they would be quite strong without inconsitancies and weak spots that come with welds. They ride quite nice too, real stiff with good steering.