|Alex Randhava - thought you might like this||rollo tommassi|
Jul 30, 2001 7:44 AM
|I just dropped a Rant Bomb on our club website - check it out and watch the sparks fly!!
Hope you had a good weekend?
|That's a member's only site||AlexR|
Jul 30, 2001 8:00 AM
|I can't get in, but I'm curious to here your rant. Perhaps you can paste it here.
By the way, I get to race Thursdays now. I've completed my three Friday requirement. See you there!
|oops! sorry - here goes||rollo tommassi|
Jul 30, 2001 12:14 PM
|(I've already gotten one flamer email about this!)
> We are all concerned as to "who" is doing this, but no one is
> wondering why.
> Why is this happening?
> Here is why:
> Large packs of undisciplined riders weaving and barrelling down the
> road. No pacelines, or pacelines that are "V" shaped, like a flight
> of geese, esentially blocking the roadway.
> Riders blowing stop signs and lights. I saw four riders (2 singles,
> pair) ride thru the red light on Everett across Waukegan this
> Saturday alone (all within a ten minute timespan).
> Powerbar wrappers and waterbottles ejected from the group onto the
> side of the road.
> Joyce (the woman at who co-owns the Amoco station) has asked us
> repeatedly to NOT BLOCK THE CARPORT; Again this weekend, fifty of
> (Albertos' and Judson) descend upon that little oasis and make life
> unbearable for this woman. You can actually see drivers change
> minds about pulling in, and continue up Waukegan to find a station
> that isn't being clogged up by a bunch of cyclists. When I make a
> mention to the group about clearing the carport I am met with
> derisive comments and dismissive attitudes.
> Why are there tacks in the road? BECAUSE WE DESERVE IT.
(two responses follow)
: Re: The cycling community "earns" their tacks...
I agree that we cyclists must follow the rules of the road. We at times take
some risks at stop signs, with some degree of calculation though.
Presumably not at the expense of rider safety or impeding the flow of
traffic. The question is whether we take too many liberties on the road-ways
and impede traffic. The answer is probably never 100% clear, but Illinois
Vehicle Code 625 ILCS 5/11-1501 makes it clear that we are to be treated just
as any other vehicle. If it is not safe to travel a vehicle and a cyclist
in the same lane or as written, "substandard width lane", then it is the duty
of the vehicle to yield to the cyclist. Interpret for yourself, but if the
lane width is substandard for a car and a bicycle to ride side by side, would
it be illegal or unsafe for two cyclists to ride side by side acting
essentially as one unit? We are allowed to ride no more than 2 abreast, as
long as we do not impede traffic flow. But in a "substandard width lane",
there is no "flow of traffic", we are the traffic. A car is allowed to
travel next to a cyclist; why can't a cyclist travel next to another cyclist
(given "substandard width lane" that is; it is clear about single file in
normal lanes)? The answer is probably in whether or not you can establish
that you are in fact overtaking another cyclist or just joy riding. How
about multiple passes down the draft line though?
I write this in response to an earlier message that was bound to get some
response. Just because some cyclist can't follow the rules doesn't mean that
we all should be punished. If that were true though, that means that every
time a motorist breaks the law we should shoot the tires out of everyones
cars. I don't have enough ammo or time for that (I think it's illegal too, I
should find that statute later).
We all should take some time to review the Illinois statute referenced below
so there is no question as to what the law really is. Maybe the motorist
could do the same, anyone have their goup e-mail address?
I agree with both Anne (and subsequently, Brad's) view(s) on the
recent "tack" situation. I don't believe, though, that we
should "mass pay" for these perceptually wrong styles of cycling. NO
ONE "deserves" to suffer a crash-threatening puncture flat. There
are certainly more productive ways to find and punish those "illegal-
riding" cyclists as the Lake Forest police have
|I really ought to buy something from that Amoco's||AlexR|
Jul 30, 2001 12:42 PM
|Considering how often I use their bathroom and waterspout.
Kidding aside, bravo on your post. It's a sane, realistic view of things. I can't say the same about the respondant - vehicle code is an abstract way to respond to a tack.
|I really ought to buy something from that Amoco's||rollo tommassi|
Jul 30, 2001 1:11 PM
|It is kind of interesting what people choose to "listen" to when you post, isn't it? He is totally right, though, the law is very clear about vehicle use on the road. Of course, we all know that it is the drivers' inability to share the road, n'est pas? ;
At some point I'll post a follow-up thanking all for their opinions and adding that we have to police ourselves so that the police don't have to.
I was going to make more snide comments about people with $3000.00 bikes who can't seem to afford a set of Mr. Tuffys or Spinskins, but I figured their 'skins' are thinner than their butyl tubes!
Thanks for your thoughts, Alex, it restores my faith.
p.s: does the 'bathroom' come before or after you use the waterspout? :)!! Chicken vs. egg???
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Jul 30, 2001 12:39 PM
|I have a feeling we'd recognize some of the same faces. I've noticed on our Tuesday night rides, that the pack leaders vie and race for position over several miles of busy road. Recently traffic was backed up for 200 yards behind 8-10 riders who were taking the entire lane. I was at the back of the line and looking in windows. Drivers were not happy, and rightfully so. I was reading the code and it seems to contain a loophole of sorts that allows for this. I'm sure the law wasn't written so that clubs and use the road way as thier personal race track. But there is nothing prohibiting. These guys truly are "over taking" each other. Taking up the whole road and blocking traffic is inconsiderate and damages our reputation in a "so far" bike friendly community. So how do you influence a group from being inconsiderate like this?|
|You've asked the Million Dollar Question!||rollo tommassi|
Jul 30, 2001 2:14 PM
|How DO you "influence" a wild pack of animals? ;)
I'm sure yours is not a unique experience.
I don't have any answers, but like you, I have the same observation and questions.
Is there a difference between a Critical Mass ride and a Saturday Club Pack ride? Do other road users see a difference?
Perhaps it is the nature of the "beast" that we are "road hogs".
sign me: "sighing"