|What a relief!!!||Lardog|
Jul 17, 2001 11:06 AM
|Thanks to shoe discussions and the Tour and flattening bladers we haven't seen the dreaded Campy vs. Shimano almost daily battles that occur in some other places. Sidi vs. Nike and Nucleons vs. whatever are truly refreshing!|
|You saying campy is better than shimano? :) nm||mr_spin|
Jul 17, 2001 11:13 AM
|. . . and through the frightening ordeal, my beeeoootiful campy||bill|
Jul 17, 2001 11:32 AM
|group, mounted securely on my able, stable, and equally beeeoootiful Litespeed, worked flawlessly, noiselessly, effortlessly. Incredible. Had the equipment been otherwise, who knows what might have happened?|
|haven't seen Campy vs. Shimano debates anywhere lately||kenyee|
Jul 17, 2001 11:56 AM
|This article seems to be a good unbiased comparison: |
I was very impressed with it.
|Yery well reasoned-good conclusions-sound judgment [nm]||Leroy L|
Jul 17, 2001 3:00 PM
|Yes, keep that link handy||Dog|
Jul 17, 2001 3:17 PM
|Any time someone does the Campy or Shimano? post, just give them that link. That should pretty much take care of it.
One thing he doesn't discuss is cost, though, or cost/benefit. We can always debate that!
|As a Chorus rider,||mike mcmahon|
Jul 17, 2001 3:15 PM
|I liked this portion of the analysis:
"Chorus is no longer second fiddle to the flagship group. Actually, Chorus is even better in some ways -- durability, for example. Chorus is no longer poor-man's Record. Rather, Record is pretentious-man's Chorus."
P.S. I guess the head-to-head comparison in the article will end the C v. S debate once and for all. ;-)
|As a Record rider,||Dog|
Jul 17, 2001 3:31 PM
|I'd prefer to view it this way:
"Chorus is no longer second fiddle to the flagship group. Actually, Chorus is even better in some ways -- durability, for example. Chorus is no longer poor-man's Record. Rather, Record is WEIGHT-WEENIE'S Chorus."
Not sure how he made the durability conclusion after a few rides, but it's quite possible nonetheless.
|Nice edit||mike mcmahon|
Jul 17, 2001 3:38 PM
|I've got to admit that I probably would have bought Record if I had the extra cash burning a hole in my pocket. I'm not a weight weenie, but I do love the carbon touches on the Record. For now, the savings of $400 or so will keep us in diapers for the baby and macaroni and cheese for the four-year-old for a least a month. Maybe I'll go Record when they're out of the house in 20 years.|
|You can add the carbon bits later||kenyee|
Jul 17, 2001 5:24 PM
|From what I've dug up, you can swap Record bits onto a Chorus set. You can also go from 9->10 speed at will as long as you have a 2000 or later setup. |
Now if I can just find a used Y-foil w/ recent Campy Chorus/Record, I'll be happy :-P
|I've thought about that||mike mcmahon|
Jul 17, 2001 5:28 PM
|I think the upgrade to the carbon levers is about $200. My Chorus is 2001, so the upgrade is workable. The best part is that my wife probably wouldn't even notice that my levers had changed color overnight. :-)|
|Record Rider II||MikeC|
Jul 17, 2001 4:51 PM
|I have a different take on the Record vs Chorus issue. For me, the few grams of difference didn't decide the call. I just decided that for once in my life I was going to get the best "something" that anyone could make. I'll never get the "best" car (whatever that may be); I'll never get the "best" wrist watch, or the "best" camera. But, dammit, I decided that even Bill Gates was NOT gonna have a better 2001 gruppo than me!
Extravagant, maybe. But I don't think it was "pretentious."
|As a Daytona rider and an Ultregra rider and a 105 rider.||cycleguy|
Jul 17, 2001 5:26 PM
|I've come to believe that it's the same as cheering for the home team. If you started with one you tend to like it. Now five years ago things were different, Campy had the edge. Look at this years Tour de France. More teams are using Dura-Ace then Record. You even see Italian frames with Shimano, GASP!! As for longevity? If they wanted you to keep them that long why do they bring out new groups every year? I still have a few Suntour Derailures (ms:) in the box. Wish I had my old Mavics for memories. I'm just glad we still have a choice. And wish an American company would get in the business. Not because I think they would be better, but why not, just more competition!!|
|I thought it was marketing?||kenyee|
Jul 17, 2001 7:24 PM
|Framemakers use more Shimano because it's "good enough" and cheaper. |
Ditto w/ teams and Shimano probably gave them more advertising money than Campy did.
|You've stumbled upon the answer to the question||Starliner|
Jul 17, 2001 8:40 PM
|team objective is to win. if shimano is "good enough", then the debate is settled.|
|I thought it was marketing?||cycleguy|
Jul 17, 2001 9:01 PM
|"Framemakers use more Shimano because it's "good enough" and cheaper.
Ditto w/ teams and Shimano probably gave them more advertising money than Campy did."
Lets see, your team spends 3+ million dollars every year just to field a competative level one team. They use a non ergo-sti, maybe even friction left hand shifter to save a few oz. on big climbs Even go as far, as some have said, and paint frames from different manufactures just to ride what they want. But they still get stuck with inferior grouppos!!!
|But if they got a $1M from a sponsor vs. $1/2M from another||kenyee|
Jul 18, 2001 6:09 AM
|The bean counters (which every company has) wouldn't get the team to at least try the other components to see if it's ok w/ them? :-) |
All speculation on my part (and we know what that's worth ;-)
|Did you ever hear ...||DaveG|
Jul 18, 2001 8:24 AM
|Did you ever hear a rider lose a stage in the TdF and say "I would have won if I'd only been riding Campy (or Shimano)" I haven't. Until one of those guys builds a component group that pedals for you, its pointless. If you are a component maker, the quickest way to get a TdF win is to sponsor the best rider. Period. The components can't do it alone. Didn't Lemond win riding Mavic componnets?|
|Thanks; It was interesting. (nm)||ALLEN phx.|
Jul 17, 2001 3:33 PM
|But Campy vs. Shimano is||DCP|
Jul 17, 2001 1:49 PM
|an infinitely superior discussion to the ever-present "Is Lance clean" arguments. At least we have some knowledge about the subject matter when we talk about equipment.|
Jul 17, 2001 3:45 PM
|"Shimano for price, Campagnolo for longivity". Nuff said.|
|I must say that the article was||Slothlike|
Jul 17, 2001 5:36 PM
|interesting and I give it to Campy for their well built product, however, even the author states that Campy doesn't "function" any better than Dura Ace. I had Chorus on one of my bikes but I switched to Dura Ace and for me I couldn't be happier. The Campy is aesthetically more pleasing and has that sense of history and romanticized "italian" race heritage, but like the Japanese automakers, they make a better or just as good product for less. I found the shifting on the Dura Ace to be smoother and the Campy more visceral The Dura Ace the pros ride is essentially right out of the box and the Campy is often prototypes. My LBS has seen many more Campy Ergo Shifter spring failures and finds Dura Ace to be generally more reliable and cheaper to replace, However, it is like owning a Ferrari, you are buying it because you can afford it and reliability is secondary. However, you can buy an Acura NSX (another exotic) for less than half the price of the cheapest Ferrari and have a car that you can drive everyday to work with commuter car reliability. That is a fact and my analogy to Shimano versus Campy. Both are more than adequate for us hacks on this board. If Lance could climb like he did today riding that "junk" shimano, then it is certainly good enough for my local peaks. Campy is great stuff, but you cannot quantify "better". It is subjective and that is it.
|Durability and replacement cost||AD14|
Jul 17, 2001 5:52 PM
|Thats funny- my lbs says they see more catastrophic failures with shimano ; and the levers must be replaced whereas campy springs are far cheaper to replace. For what its worth my campy stuff has never given me any problems in thousands of miles and I have a riding buddy whose shifters are giving up the ghost at 1500 miles.|
|Dura Ace and Chorus are both excellent||kenyee|
Jul 17, 2001 7:19 PM
|is what I got out of the article. Record also doesn't seem worth the price markup over Chorus. |
I think it's more a case of where you like the shifters and whether you like the aesthetics of how the cables run on the handles.
BTW, love the NSX too. Too bad the price is so stratospheric for purchase and maintenance :-)
|"The big winner is Campagnolo,"||davidl|
Jul 17, 2001 7:50 PM
|saith the author in his "Wrap Up." He is right. The two are not equivalent - everybody can't claim the title. Those of us who ride Campy understand ...|
|"The big winner is Campagnolo,"||cycleguy|
Jul 17, 2001 9:02 PM
|Those of us who ride Campy understand ...
What? I ride both..........
|The big winner is Campagnolo?????||Starliner|
Jul 17, 2001 9:10 PM
|not so fast, pardner. check out the context of the statement first.... my take is that the test results found both to be pretty equal, but in light of a reluctance among competitors to stray from good old tried-and-true shimano, a draw for campy is as good as a victory for campy when matched up against shimano.
as for a claim to a "title", don't be ridiculous. this whole "debate" is about as useful as the longtime ford vs. chevy debate. very bo-ring. i don't ride campy, but i'm sure it would be fine once i got used to the different operational nuances. shimano has worked well for me after thousands of miles without any problem.
i think you campy guys ought to tone down your snobbery. if its all about gear for you guys, then get a life.
Jul 17, 2001 9:41 PM
|I think the irony of your post was lost...nm||mr_spin|
Jul 18, 2001 7:27 AM
|Not lost-just ignored ;-) (nm)||mike mcmahon|
Jul 18, 2001 7:32 AM
|A few thoughts||railer|
Jul 18, 2001 9:00 AM
|Dura Ace is near the end of its life as it is now. Soon it will be changed. Its been the same since 98? Campy is much younger in its design run. This happens in cars too. If all companies redesigned at the same time there would probably be less debate.
Campy makes better bearings and pivots. Longer lasting and smoother. Looks exotic.
But I think SHimano has a better, smoother, more ergonomic feel with better shifting. I do prefer Campy's ergo lever to Shimanos lever for multiple reasons. Hopefully Shimano can copy it it Campy has not patented it. Anyone know?
The Euro to Jap car analogy is accurate. A ferrari is tough to shift. Atleast the older ones are. Havent driven a post 87 ferrari. Reminds me of the clunky shifting. Get in an Acura NSX and it shifts like butter. Just like Dura Ace. Ferraris are way cooler than an Acura on the appeal level IMO.
|re: What a relief!!!||Lardog|
Jul 18, 2001 11:03 AM
|Maybe we should add gas vs. charcoal to this one! Chevy vs. Ford? Sentra vs. Corolla? Hog vs. riceburner? LOL|| |