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why do they give "all" the Tour riders the same time???(10 posts)

why do they give "all" the Tour riders the same time???jayz
Jul 12, 2001 10:52 AM
well, not all of them...but like the first 70 people all had the same time?? i know they could all go over the line together :)
seems like that second or two might make a difference in the overall time..no?

thanks
contiguous groupDog
Jul 12, 2001 10:56 AM
The whole group together gets the same time. I think the reasoning is that a mass sprint by everyone could not fit accross the finish line. The first three usually get time bonuses, though, essentially making their times a bit faster than the group.

Doug
unless.....ck
Jul 12, 2001 11:11 AM
A 2 (i think) second gap in a group will result in a different (current) time for those following the gap. i think i just confused the issue......
timing rules.J.S.
Jul 12, 2001 11:18 AM
On flat stages they give the Peleton the same time only if there isn't a split, if there is a split of more than a few seconds between groups of riders time is added to the next group. If a crash happens inside of the last Kilometer those that fell get the same time as the last group through........unless it's a mountain stage were the last kilometer rule doesn't apply and all riders are timed across the line individually regardless if they finish in a group or not, Whew.
cause it's too hard to separate themmr_spin
Jul 12, 2001 11:28 AM
Assigning time is left up to the race jury and the "rules" change year to year. The rule I heard is that when you stood on one side of the line and looked across the road at the other, if you could see the barrier on the other side, there was a gap. That means no wheels, riders, bodies, etc. in the way. Otherwise, everyone gets the same time.

Determining gaps is a black art for sure. In the 1995 tour, the yellow jersey changed hands because of a questionable gap call. Even stranger, I think it stayed on the same team (Gotti to Riis on Geweiss?), which must have made for an interesting post ride meal.

The technology they use for photo finishes can actually assign separate times, but I think there is tradition involved that prevents its use. If you watched Jalabert's win on OLN, they showed the "photo" of the finish, which is really a digitized picture. They can literally "stretch" that image to magnify small separations and assign times to the thousandth of a second.
The UCI rulesDog
Jul 12, 2001 11:47 AM
From: http://www.uci.ch/english/about/rules/ch02_road.pdf

Finishes and time-keeping
The classification shall be always determined according to the order of crossing the finishing line. The classification shall determine the allocation of prizes and points. (N) The photo-finish shall be mandatory. Any rider finishing in a time exceeding that of the winner by more than 5% shall not be placed. For events in the Elite Men's and Elite Women's World Cups, the time limit may in exceptional circumstances be increased by the Commissaires' Panel in agree-ment
with the organiser.
At the World Championships, any rider who is dropped and lapped by the lead riders before they start their final lap shall be eliminated and must drop out of the race. All other riders shall be classified in accordance with their position.
(amendment came into force on 1 January 1999).
***All riders in a given bunch shall be credited with the same time when they cross the finishing line.*** The timekeepers shall continue to officiate until the sag-wagon arrives. They shall also record the
times of riders that finish after the set deadlines and shall hand the list of recorded times to the Chief Commissaire.
All times recorded by the timekeepers shall be rounded down to the nearest second.
In case of track finishes, the whole surface of the track may be used.
Riders' times may be recorded as they enter the track. Moreover, the commissaires may decide on a neutralisation at the entrance to the track in order to avoid the mixing of riders from different bunches.
If the track is impracticable, the finishing line shall be moved off the track and riders shall be informed by all available means.
If after all technical means available have been exhausted, riders draw for the allocation of the World Champion title, they shall immediately run a 1000 metres sprint to decide.

2.6.020
Bonuses
Bonuses may be offered under the following conditions:
1. Major Tours (Tour de France, Giro d'Italia, Vuelta a España)
Intermediate sprints:
• half-stages: 2 sprints maximum
• stages: 4 sprints maximum
Maximum bonuses
• intermediate sprints: 6" - 4" - 2"
• finish: half-stage: 12" - 8" - 4"
stage: 20" - 12" - 8"
2. Other events
Intermediate sprints:
• half-stages: 1 sprint maximum
• stages: 3 sprints maximum
Maximum bonuses
• intermediate sprints: 3" - 2" - 1"
• finish: half-stage: 6" - 4" - 2"
stage: 10" - 6" - 4"
No bonuses may be awarded during stages or half-stages without a bonus also being awarded at the finish.
Such bonuses shall be shown only in the general placings. No bonuses shall be awarded for individual and Team Time Trial events.

2.6.028
Finish
In the case of a duly noted fall, puncture or mechanical incident beyond the red flare, the rider or riders involved shall be credited with the time of the rider or riders in whose company they were riding
at the moment of the accident. His or their placing shall be determined by the order in which he or they actually cross the finishing line.
If, as the result of a fall beyond the red flare, a rider cannot cross the finishing line, he shall be placed last in the stage and credited with the time of the rider or riders in whose company he was
riding at the time of the accident.
Articles 2.6.026 and 2.6.027 shall apply neither in Time-Trial stages nor where the finish is at the top of a hill-climb.

Doug
Safety....Len J
Jul 12, 2001 12:18 PM
I read somewhere that this rule originated out of safety issues. Imagine if 189 riders in the tour were all in one group approaching a finish that was as wide as normal and that each position mattered in terms of time, How many accidents would occur as all tried to sprint simotaneously for the line. With the current rules there is a much more rational (and safe) finish for each cohesive group in the Peleton.
Don't ask this question to ESPN Radio...Ken K
Jul 12, 2001 2:02 PM
This reminds me of a time last year during the TdF when I was listening to ESPN Radio. The two sports talk show hosts (typical ex-football jock types) were complaining about how 'backwards' cycling is since they give everyone the same time and don't use modern technology to seperate the riders. Just shows how much (or how little) research these radio experts do before they go on the air...

Ken
An interesting article on the back page of...E33
Jul 12, 2001 4:12 PM
... the new Cycling Plus mag makes the argument for real times for all riders. They base this on the capability of modern photo finish equipment that would allow judges to sort out individual times.

Imagine a mass sprint for every place! Scary.

(This is E3 on another computer.)
Ya, that would be crazy.J.S.
Jul 13, 2001 7:31 AM
That's probably why they haven't changed it.