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Attn: Litespeed bashers and lovers.(40 posts)

Attn: Litespeed bashers and lovers.railer
Jun 21, 2001 10:26 AM
Not that it means a whole lot, but I just thought Id pass this little tidbit of info along to the board.

I happed to live near the first American to ride in the Tour de France, and I just thought Id let you know what kind of bike he rides.

If you havent guessed already, its a Litespeed.

Again, Im sure I'll get a lot of flack for this statement, but he could ride any bike.
thanks for the infoJ. Boyer
Jun 21, 2001 10:33 AM
nm
Tell Jock "good choice!" and hello from Rhode Island. (nm)RhodyRider
Jun 21, 2001 10:33 AM
The real question . . .DCP
Jun 21, 2001 12:18 PM
is whether he bought it like you or I would, or whether he was given it or bought it at a substantial discount. Pros don't much care what they ride; its a money issue. Might be for him too.
Well, hes no longer under any contractsrailer
Jun 21, 2001 12:29 PM
and Im sure with a name like his he could call up any manufacturer and get a very substantial discount. Now that hes not sponsored, Im sure hes glad to have a say or choice in what he pedals.
???DCP
Jun 21, 2001 1:07 PM
You have no more clue as to whether he could get a discount from a manufacturer than do I. My point is that Litespeed, like nearly all other higher end manufacturers, make quite a decent product. The differences at the high end of the market are marginal. I would read more into his choice if he bought the thing at a market price rather than had it given to him, or sold to him at a 70% discount.
I'm just bummed to hear...Hank
Jun 21, 2001 1:13 PM
he's not riding a Vitus.
He does still have a few. nmrailer
Jun 21, 2001 2:33 PM
Just for our informationLazyrider
Jun 21, 2001 3:48 PM
Lance has been riding Litespeeds for many years. He rode what was basically a Litespeed Classic during the 1993 World Championships and up until 1999 TDF other frames, see below. Got this off the internet recently

Ooltewah Bicycle Headed for Top
By JAMES BEACH
Staff Writer
Barring catastrophe, Americans will celebrate Lance Armstrong's ride into the streets of Paris today as this country's second winner of the Tour De France, the world's premier cycling event.
The cheers will be especially loud from some folks in Ooltewah who provide Mr. Armstrong with his expensive racing bikes.
Litespeed Titanium Components Inc., based in the Ooltewah Industrial Park, is one of the world's top titanium bike manufacturers, and the company Mr. Armstrong has chosen to carry him to cycling stardom.
The bike Mr. Armstrong has pedaled across Europe in his quest to join three-time winner Greg LeMond as the only Americans to grab the cycling brass ring, bears the name Trek, another U.S. bike manufacture. Trek sponsors the U.S. Postal Service team of which Mr. Armstrong is a part.
By contract, though, Mr. Armstrong, who has overcome testicular cancer, has the right to choose his own performance bikes. His choice is Litespeed.
"We're all very excited for him, and I think everyone here is rooting for him. The bikes don't have our Litespeed name on them, but they are the ones we built and Trek purchased for him. Everyone on the U.S. Postal team rides a Trek bike except Lance Armstrong," said David Lynskey, president of the family business.
Mr. Armstrong was custom-fitted for the bike by John Cobb, a Litespeed dealer, after wind-tunnel testing at Texas A&M. Mr. Armstrong, as well as other top American cyclists, rode Litespeed bikes during the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta.
"Lance was a member of the Motorola cycling team and we sponsored it in previous years, so he was familiar with the cycle. He felt like he wanted to ride nothing but the best, and asked us to fit him and provide him the equipment, and we did so," said Mr. Lynskey.
Litespeed provides these cycles free for some world class competitors, but because of the Trek sponsorship, Mr. Armstrong had to pay for his Litespeed bike. The cost is about $6,000 per bike, according to Mr. Lynskey.
"If it says Litespeed, it's free, but if it says something else, it's going to cost you. They didn't mind paying for it," Mr. Lynskey said.
Mr. Lynskey said the company, which employs about 60 workers, stays in touch with Mr. Armstrong by phone, and almost everyone at the plant feels pride to see him doing so well.
The bikes Mr. Armstrong uses are built with a special alloy tubing that is 50 percent stronger and 50 percent lighter than the standard titanium tube in most racing cycles.
Mr. Lynskey's family got into the bike business after operating a metal fabrication business that worked with titanium. The company has become known for its expertise in the metal, which is difficult to work with because of the very properties which make it so ideal for competition: light weight and strength.
Originally a maker of bike frames, Litespeed moved into making complete bikes several years ago, and the company has flourished.
What does this prove?...........Len J
Jun 21, 2001 1:16 PM
If the company gave it to him for nothing then
They are a savvy marketing group. Look at the implication of your post. "If he's riding it it must be good". Please...

If the company gave it to him at a great discount then
Again savvy marketing.

If he bought it himself then
He felt good about the fit and the capabilities of the bike. Again, what does that have to do with the way I ride, the way a bike fits me.

My guess is that he's riding it cause he got a deal, good Marketing, good for him.

p.s. Did you see that Lance was wearing Oakley's in the Tour of Switzerland. ....."just thought Id pass this little tidbit along to the board" (Seriously tounge in cheek)
Hi Lenny!!railer
Jun 21, 2001 2:31 PM
I stated in my post it doesnt mean much.

I have no implications in my post. I dont ride a Litespeed.

Just some info I passed along.

I loved your L Armstrong comparison! Big difference, Lance is payed mucho bux to wear those. I happen to know the Janards (founder of OAkley) and I know he gets compensated quite well. Hes still racing.

Any company would give him a good deal.

It doesnt have anything with the way you ride, nor do I personally care. I just thought the Litespeed owners would like to see this. I also thought the Litespeed bashers would not like it. Look at your reaction.
Good Point Although...Len J
Jun 21, 2001 2:49 PM
I don't think I'm a Lightspeed Basher. I think my Bashing is the anticipation of the "Lightspeed wars". They get really tiresome after the 7th or 8th one you read. But I know you know that or you wouldn't have tried so hard to start one. Bored Today?
which one?4bykn
Jun 21, 2001 1:30 PM
I'd guess Vortex, or maybe Palmeres. I prefer the more classic lines of the Vortex, but lose the radial seat stays.
old newsColnagoFE
Jun 21, 2001 2:07 PM
assuming you're talking about Lance who is hardly the first American to "ride" or "win" the TDF (remember Lemond?). It was a LS Blade...really a custom deal. Nothing like you or I would get stock. He rode a stock Treck OCLV for everything except the TT.
Jonathan Boyer (nm)Hank
Jun 21, 2001 2:17 PM
nm
Earth to Jeff Hansen?? ?? THanks for the info on Lance. nmrailer
Jun 21, 2001 2:20 PM
it's news to you!thunk
Jun 21, 2001 4:05 PM
remember Boyer? obviously not... LOL!
Who Are you guys talking about?Lazyrider
Jun 21, 2001 3:36 PM
Maybe I am ignorant but who was the "first" American to ride in the TDF? With regards to Litespeed and the reaction everyone (good and Bad) has to the mentioning of "that Name" I just want to say that it is pure idiocy to think that Litespeed is some marketing machine pushing poor quality products. They are the best titanium frame builders in the world. Their bikes sell a lot because they are excellent machines. All you idiots that buy into the idea that Seven and other more obscure frames are better because they sell less are mislead. Hondas are one of the best cars on the road dollar for dollar and will probably give you more years of trouble free service than most german machines, but that snob appeal isn't their. Several years ago all you idiots bashing Litespeed now, were the ones coveting them when they were more exclusive. You are paying for obscurity and exclusivity and I said it before, the day Seven sells as many bikes as Litespeed, people will find another bike to idealize. Colnago owners, I heard numerous times that Ernesto doesn't ship his best product to America. Don't know if this is true or not but it wouldn't surpise me that more attention to detail is given to frames that stay in Italy. Has anyone else heard of this??
Repost, my mistake but interestingLazyrider
Jun 21, 2001 3:52 PM
Just for our information

Lance has been riding Litespeeds for many years. He rode what was basically a Litespeed Classic during the 1993 World Championships and up until 1999 TDF other frames, see below. Got this off the internet recently

Ooltewah Bicycle Headed for Top
By JAMES BEACH
Staff Writer
Barring catastrophe, Americans will celebrate Lance Armstrong's ride into the streets of Paris today as this country's second winner of the Tour De France, the world's premier cycling event.
The cheers will be especially loud from some folks in Ooltewah who provide Mr. Armstrong with his expensive racing bikes.
Litespeed Titanium Components Inc., based in the Ooltewah Industrial Park, is one of the world's top titanium bike manufacturers, and the company Mr. Armstrong has chosen to carry him to cycling stardom.
The bike Mr. Armstrong has pedaled across Europe in his quest to join three-time winner Greg LeMond as the only Americans to grab the cycling brass ring, bears the name Trek, another U.S. bike manufacture. Trek sponsors the U.S. Postal Service team of which Mr. Armstrong is a part.
By contract, though, Mr. Armstrong, who has overcome testicular cancer, has the right to choose his own performance bikes. His choice is Litespeed.
"We're all very excited for him, and I think everyone here is rooting for him. The bikes don't have our Litespeed name on them, but they are the ones we built and Trek purchased for him. Everyone on the U.S. Postal team rides a Trek bike except Lance Armstrong," said David Lynskey, president of the family business.
Mr. Armstrong was custom-fitted for the bike by John Cobb, a Litespeed dealer, after wind-tunnel testing at Texas A&M. Mr. Armstrong, as well as other top American cyclists, rode Litespeed bikes during the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta.
"Lance was a member of the Motorola cycling team and we sponsored it in previous years, so he was familiar with the cycle. He felt like he wanted to ride nothing but the best, and asked us to fit him and provide him the equipment, and we did so," said Mr. Lynskey.
Litespeed provides these cycles free for some world class competitors, but because of the Trek sponsorship, Mr. Armstrong had to pay for his Litespeed bike. The cost is about $6,000 per bike, according to Mr. Lynskey.
"If it says Litespeed, it's free, but if it says something else, it's going to cost you. They didn't mind paying for it," Mr. Lynskey said.
Mr. Lynskey said the company, which employs about 60 workers, stays in touch with Mr. Armstrong by phone, and almost everyone at the plant feels pride to see him doing so well.
The bikes Mr. Armstrong uses are built with a special alloy tubing that is 50 percent stronger and 50 percent lighter than the standard titanium tube in most racing cycles.
Mr. Lynskey's family got into the bike business after operating a metal fabrication business that worked with titanium. The company has become known for its expertise in the metal, which is difficult to work with because of the very properties which make it so ideal for competition: light weight and strength.
Originally a maker of bike frames, Litespeed moved into making complete bikes several years ago, and the company has flourished.
tried to look it upColnagoFE
Jun 21, 2001 3:52 PM
but couldn't find the answer...though i'm sure there were plenty before Lemond...though technically he wasn't racing for an american team was he?...was lance the first american who won riding for an american team? not too up on my TDF history I guess.

i think the colnago thing is just a rumor though i've heard and can believe that the ovalmasters (TI) are outsourced and then finished by Colnago. Pretty sure the C-40s and Master XLs come off the Colnago assembly line.
tried to look it upLarry Meade
Jun 22, 2001 7:47 AM
Jonathan Boyer was the first rider from the U.S to ride in the Tour. It would really be a misnomer to say he was the first American. There were several riders from Columbia and other South American countries to ride in the Tour before Boyer. There are probably some Canadians prior to Steve Bauer that rode in the Tour as well although I can't think of any off the top of my head. Lance Armstrong was in fact the first rider from the U. S. to win while riding for a U. S. based team. LeMond was on French based teams for all of his victories.
Oh my...Biking Viking
Jun 21, 2001 3:56 PM
I assume this is flame bait.

If it is, this war has been fought to death already, and we're all tired of it. Please use some creativity when you troll next time.

If it isn't, please back up your ridiculous claims with some facts.

"They [Litespeed] are the best titanium frame builders in the world."

"All you idiots that buy into the idea that Seven and other more obscure frames are better because they sell less are mislead."

Patiently awaiting your reply.

BV
is it really a SEVEN???jaybird
Jun 22, 2001 6:48 AM
FYI to all of you who think you are escaping Litespeed by buying a 7 your hard earned dollars still end up in the Litespeed purse as 7 was recently aquired by Litespeed
Jonathan Boyer, AKA Jacques BoyerJ.S.
Jun 21, 2001 4:25 PM
He was a bit of an eccentric, He apparently really wanted to fit into the Euro scene and started telling everybody to call him Jacques. Another bit of trivia that not many people know is that Thurlow Rodgers actually rode for La Vie Claire with Greg Lemond and in fact was well liked by Bernard Hinault because he was a tough rider, when the "Badger" calls you tough it must be true.
Biking VikingLazyrider
Jun 21, 2001 6:05 PM
Well, I am not trying to flame anything. It just annoys me to see how many people make disparaging remarks about a bicycle company that is noted by european cycling magazines (cyclesport and others) as being one of the best bicycle frame makers in the world. Litespeed also makes a great percentage of the world's titanium frames with their own name and for other bicycle houses as well which is proof that they can make a great bike(as I am sure you are aware). They (litespeed) are the best because they are the most innovative in design and experimentation with new methods, geometry, tube shaping with titanium. Look at the Colnago Oval TI. Cold Worked 6/4 ti with an oversized downtube. Where did they get that Idea from??? Litespeed. Many other companies have followed suit and are now marketing the same way and coldworking etc. The Vortex was the first of its kind wasn't it? and still one of the best bicycles let alone ti bikes on the rode. I call those people idiots who criticize Litespeed for essentially becoming too successful. When they sold fewer frames they were coveted by all. All I heard was Litespeed is the best ti frame. Now , as could be predicted, because they are in abundance on the rodes, somehow they lost their mystic and are presumably crap now that they are no longer exclusive. That is ridiculous. People talk about Seven, Serotta, Moots like they are the best thing since sliced bread. They are all great bikes but people idealize them because they are rare more than the fact that they are "so far superior" than those crummy litespeeds. I never criticize any frame builder as most high end frames are more of a bike than any nonprofessional here would ever technically need while we ride our local rodes. I don't criticize a bike until I own it and have ridden it long enough to really know how it feels. As far as the Colnago rumor that they sell a different product to Americans, I heard this several times at LBS and from distributors but I have a hard time believing it. I do think they are paint their bikes well. By the way I ride a Fondriest and a Litespeed that I love.
Later
I still don't get itBiking Viking
Jun 21, 2001 7:31 PM
Your arguments do not provide a foundation for your claim.

Argument 1: "They (litespeed) are the best because they are the most innovative ine design and experimentation with new methods, geometry, tube shaping with titanium."

In the MTB world, Cannondale fits that description best - except for the titanium part. Sadly, Cannondale can not be said to be the best MTB manufacturer. Argument proves nothing.

Argument 2: "Look at the Colnago Oval TI. Cold Worked 6/4 ti with an oversized downtube. Where did they get that Idea from??? Litespeed. Many other companies have followed suit and are now marketing the same way and coldworking etc. The Vortex was the first of its kind wasn't it? and still one of the best bicycles let alone ti bikes on the rode [sic]. "

So what - someone copied the idea, for the benefit of the technology or for the marketing hype? Impossible to tell, but it does not convince me that Litespeed is a better manufacturer. The two main purposes as a bicycle frame are:

1. Aid the rider in propelling his bicyle most efficiently.
2. Provide the ride comfort that maximizes his endurance.

What are the *scientific* facts that prove that a 6/4 Ti frame is more efficient at any of these - or that the frame is "better" in any other way.

-

Litespeed better or not, I'll still take my 3/2.5 Ti VaMoots with round tubes over any Litespeed frame. I don't think a blind test (if possible on a bike) would reveal any difference in riding quality to a Litespeed, and we're talking a lot of money on both sides anyway. Regardless of who is the best builder, I choose to ride a Moots because:

1. The attention to detail, especially on the welds is superior to any Litespeed frame I've seen. When you fork out $2K for a frame, these things mean something to me. Yes, it means squat for the ride quality, which is superb anyway.
2. When the roads around where I live fill up with yellow Litespeed stickers on a Saturday morning, it's great to ride a bike that stands out. And, again "When you fork out $2K for a frame, ..." and so on.

Aside from providing a great ride, these things are what make me happy with my frame. A side from providing a great ride, the 6-4 Ti and the success of Litespeed make you happy with yours. Great!

Still, I don't see why Litespeed makes the best frames in the world.

I really don't care either - but when someone makes a bold statement about these things, I demand proper argumentation.

BV
Just out of curiosityVlad the Impaler
Jun 21, 2001 8:21 PM
I live in Boulder CO and have yet to see a VaMoots live and in person. You'd think with Moots being just a stones throw away (well kinda) you'd see more on the roads. I always thought they looked like a sweet ride. I was curious, what area of the country do you live in? Do you see any other VaMoots?
I live in...Biking Viking
Jun 21, 2001 8:58 PM
...Sunnyvale, CA - SF Bay Area - Silicon Valley, whatever.

Here's my "spotting frequency" of Ti bikes:
Litespeed - at least one per week
Merlin - one per month
Seven - one per quarter
Serotta - one per year
VaMoots - never, except my own.

I have to add that I probably would have seen more bikes had I done group rides with a cycling club. However, they always start at 10am on the weekends. At that point I'm usually 50 miles into a road ride or well into a mountain bike ride.

BV
You prove my pointLazyrider
Jun 21, 2001 8:54 PM
that you enjoy the sense of exclusivity of riding a bike that is rare to see on the rode. If you all of a sudden see Vamoots everywhere, are you the type to look for a new bike? The inherent essence of your bike wouldn't have changed but would your perceptions? That is exactly my point. People who think this way sound like teenagers when they like a song/band but once it becomes popular and gets frequent air play, the song that meant so much to them all of a sudden becomes something of lesser value. Seems adolescent to me. There was a time when Litespeed had that sense of exclusivity ad were soooooo coveted and now get bashed for their proliferation.
What makes you think that somehow Moots pays more attention to detail. Double pass welds? Welds on a double pass will look better than a single pass (usually) because the second pass hides initial weld imperfections. Litespeed doesn't allow double pass welds for this reason because if they get it right the first time there shouldn't be any structural problems (as you seem to know). I personally don't like dramatically shaped tubes that is why I ride the Litespeed Classic. But if you are I were given or won a Vortex or Palmares, neither one of us would be upset. Vamoots is a nice ride and I never see them but if that is what matters to you, I hope you are driving a Bugati sports car in order for you to get that same sense of satisfaction (ie. exclusivity/uniqueness).
Innovation does matter. When you are the first to experiment, take risks and venture into new areas, it makes the imitator's job easier. A lot of professionals including Lance Armstrong paid out of pocket for Litespeed bikes to be ridden all over the world. To me that says a lot that they could ride bikes for free but choose to lay down the cash for Litespeeds. I may be wrong but how many Sevens, Moots and Serottas were ridden in the TDF. There were many Litespeeds and by no means is the idea of a professional riding one important to me. These professionals went to Litespeed seeking their product. That says a lot about the product. I assure you that Moots wouldn't turn down any business in order to remain exclusive. They only wish they had 1/2 the success of Litespeed.
Food for thought
Enjoy your ride
Worng! I do not prove your point...Biking Viking
Jun 21, 2001 9:21 PM
Your point was that "people think Serotta, Seven and Moots are the best thing since sliced bread" because they are rare.

Read what I type, don't guess what I mean, because you're no good at it.

I said I like my Moots because it's a rare bike - not that it is any better.

I can also mention that I like that Brad, who welded my bike together in March last year, is an avid mountain biker and rides the trails around Steamboat Springs every day in the summer. I like that I have a picture of MY frame being worked on in the Moots factory. I like that there are still small bike factories where people work because they truly love putting bicycles together, not because they frequently receive a fat pay check from a big company. I like that I can call anyone at the Moots factory and have a nice conversation about bicycling before I get on with any technical questions I have - which will be answered right away, by the way.

I like all of this, because it came with my unbelievably sweet road bike that I payed a lot of money for, but it doesn't make my bike any better.

Steep growth is one measure of corporate success, high market share is another. Moots has none of those - in my mind, they are still successful - because they have fought off big companies trying to gobble them up and have managed to stay small and exotic. Litespeed went the other way, and I can not imagine that the guys at Moots have any intention to follow.

We will never see a Moots in the TdF, you're right. You are by the way, way off in thinking that it has anything to do with quality. Gimme a break! Lance rides a Trek because they are the largest bicycle manufacturer in the world, and can afford to have him on the payroll. It has nothing to do with quality. By the way, close to 100%of the bikes in the tour have carbon fiber frames, so Litespeed isn't playing there anyway.

Do you know anything about mountain bikes? Do the model names Moots YBB and Litespeed Unicoi mean anything to you. If not, check the story out and see who copied who there.

Good luck.

BV
Man, you sound soLazyrider
Jun 21, 2001 10:08 PM
hostile. The fact that you admit you like your bike because it is rare is as silly as a teenager admitting they smoke cigarettes to look cool. Plus your bike is very bland looking. I am sure it has a nice ride but man is it dull!!! Incredibly dull! Amazingly dull!!! No wonder you never see them around, who wants to pay that much for such a dull looking bike. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy understating things and not being too gawdy but JESUS IS THAT A DULL LOOKING BIKE!!!!! Please don't talk about aesthetics of the welds on that thing because I have seen military vehicles with more becoming finishes. MAN IS THAT A DULL LOOKING BIKE!!
Listen I am just jerking your chain but I am sure you'll be pissed but you have to lighten up a bit.
Litespeed were ridden in recent past TDF including Lance's TT in 99 and Virenque's bike and several teammates. So you are wrong on that point.
Additionally, Moots is a business and I assure you that given the chance they wouldn't turn down business to "Keep it a small company". The objective of business is sustenance and I think you are putting Litespeed in the same company as TREK, Cannondale which is ridiculous because by comparison Litespeed is still a small company compared to them.
Did I say that that was a really "DULL LOOKING BIKE"
Later
Thanks...Biking Viking
Jun 21, 2001 11:11 PM
...I'm really glad you said:

"Listen I am just jerking your chain but I am sure you'll be pissed but you have to lighten up a bit. "

because I thought you'd dropped your pants in front of everybody. I really suck at guessing these things.

Pissed, I? Far from it. I am enjoying this as much as you are. I'm not hostile either, that's just the problem with written communication, when there's absolutely no body language to accompany the message. However, English is not my native language, so my message might not be coming through clearly - sorry about that, but I'm really doing my best.

You have every right to think my bike is dull - go ahead, be my guest. You can even spell it out in capital letters, repeatedly. To me, it's about simplicity - you call it dullness. I've heard others use adjectives as "sweet" and "clean". My wife calls it "boring", but she's not a cyclist. So we have different opnions - that's diversity and it's what makes this planet a wonderful place to live. If that were a Litespeed frame, it would be a gray bike with yellow stickers that said L-i-t-e-s-p-e-e-d. This one happens to be a gray bike with dull, white stickers that say M-o-o-t-s.

I'll take your statement on the welds to photoreview.com and post it under the Kodak DC240 reviews. That's incredible performance from a pretty crappy camera. JUST kidding!

I just have to keep nitpicking your statements though - because I am totally unable to admit that I'm wrong when I'm not.

Ahem - here we go:
"Litespeed were ridden in recent past TDF including Lance's TT in 99 and Virenque's bike and several teammates. So you are wrong on that point."

I know that Litespeeds HAVE been used - but I said - and make sure you read it properly this time:
"By the way, close to 100%of the bikes in the tour have carbon fiber frames, so Litespeed isn't playing there anyway."

I did not say:
"By the way, close to 100%of the bikes in the tour have carbon fiber frames, so Litespeed never played there anyway."

See the difference?

The objective of business is to sustain - sure thing and Moots has done that for 20 years. They've even grown a little - but they're not big enough, yet, to have forgotten the meaning of "customer service".

I'll end this now. I'll slip into my bed thinking about how wonderful it is that you and I can co-exist happily in this world - me on that dull, gray bike with the nice welds, and Lazyrider, who is out there somewhere, on that not-so dull, gray bike with the not-so nice welds.

By the way - Did you get a chance to check out on that YBB - Unicoi thing?

Happy tailwinds.

BV
One last thing to clarifyLazyrider
Jun 21, 2001 11:32 PM
My Litespeed is a Bright Polished Classic. It is quite shiny and I do prefer it over the brushed Litespeeds or those really dull Vamoots (haha).
Your English is actually superb so don't fret over it. Most Americans can't speak properly but you're written word seems very polished like my Litespeed Classic.
By the way, that camera you mentioned is a great cameera. I just bought my girlfriend the dc-3400 (practically the same) and the picture quality is awesome for price.
By the way, your wife may not be a cyclist but one can judge a frame's beauty without knowledge of bicycling. She has a keen eye!!!
I will post a picture of my Litespeed after I take some shots so you can tear into me.
Later
Sweet Dreams (hope you dream in color because your bike could look better that way hahaha)
Worng! I do not prove your point...Larry Meade
Jun 22, 2001 8:13 AM
"By the way, close to 100%of the bikes in the tour have carbon fiber frames, so Litespeed isn't playing there anyway."

2001 tour rides:
Telekom - Aluminum and Steel Pinarellos with carbon seat stays.
ONCE - Aluminum Giant
Fassa Bortolo - Aluminum and Steel Pinarellos with carbon seat stays
Cofidis - Aluminum MBK
Domo - Aluminum Eddy Merckx
Festina - Aluminum Specialized
Lampre-Daiken Aluminum Fondriest
iBanesto - Aluminum and Steel Pinarellos
FDJ - Aluminum Gitane

As you can see, at least 9 of the 21 teams in the Tour are riding Aluminum frames. If you take 9 riders times 9 teams that is 81 out of 189 bikes on the roads of the Tour are aluminum. That is at least 42%. This is just the teams that I could quickly find. I'm sure I missed a couple of teams in there that are riding aluminum. You seem to be attacking Lazy for not providing facts then you throw out a "fact" that is easily disproven. This is not debatable like weld quality. If you are going to insist on factual posts from others, you might hold yourself to the same standard.

Aloha,
Larry "just tryin' to keep ya honest" Meade
allegedlyjeez
Jun 22, 2001 9:40 AM
how do you know they are not just painted-over? like Tonkov's "Lemond"?
I stand corrected...Biking Viking
Jun 22, 2001 9:49 AM
...I knew that there were very few titanium bikes and ASSUMED that the rest were carbon fiber. My bad - thanks for the correction.

BV
prosHank
Jun 21, 2001 10:12 PM
guess what bike Andy Hampsten rides? Starts with an M.

Serotta used to supply 7-11 (they said Huffy on them).

But this what-pros-ride thing is a silly argument. Having worked on both bikes in shops, I can tell you honestly that Moots has better qc. But Litespeeds are nice, and you can get a hell of a deal on them at the end of the year...
You are cluelessVaMootsman
Jun 22, 2001 7:53 AM
...wow...you are completely unfounded with most of the above statements. Clueless. Utterly and completely clueless. Moots uses a double pass to hide welding imperfections? Moots doesn't turn down business? I assure you that Moots does not double pass weld to hide imperfections (and I've no idea where you got that idea) and I know personally that Moots has turned down orders due to the fact that they couldn't meet time schedules. Utterly and completely clueless.
Biking VikingSeven
Jun 22, 2001 9:18 AM
Just face it: Litespeeds are crummy. Sevens RULE!!! |-)
Hey, bikingviking and lazyrider...4bykn
Jun 22, 2001 1:09 AM
You two need to hug. You guys are so much alike. You both ride nice bikes and know it. If I had more money I'd be happy to be riding either bike. As it is, I still ride titanium (Airborne). We should all be happy and satisfied, not flaming each other's bikes! Now kiss and make up!

ps. this is NOT intended as flame-bait!