Jun 14, 2001 11:40 PM
|Who here is Christian? I'm one and just wanted to know if there were others out there. Thanks|
Jun 14, 2001 11:53 PM
|might as well ask if there are any h0mosexuals or bisexuals here||Lance rmstrong|
Jun 15, 2001 12:45 AM
|I will win this year.|
Jun 15, 2001 1:00 AM
Jun 15, 2001 1:54 AM
|Non-christian here, specifically, Unitarian.|
|No thanks||Cliff Oates|
Jun 15, 2001 3:16 AM
|What does this have to do with bicycling?|
|Mr. Insomniac||Cliff Oates|
Jun 15, 2001 3:52 AM
|And I'd better get over it soon because I'm going on a 90 mile unsupported climbfest out in the middle of nowhere on Sunday.|
|What color hair have you guys got?||PingPong|
Jun 15, 2001 4:30 AM
|I was just wondering. I am blonde and want to know if there are others. Thanks.|
Jun 15, 2001 5:37 AM
|my bikes are all the religion i need in my life|
|wasnt Steve Sanders on 90210 ??||jayz|
Jun 15, 2001 5:45 AM
|oh come on....like i was the only one to watch the show ?!?!?!|
|I think you were :) nm||jbrown2036|
Jun 15, 2001 6:44 AM
Jun 15, 2001 6:40 AM
|But last I checked, it didn't improve my speed or handling skills, so on this board, I think its moot.
Steve, are you having trouble finding other Christians who ride??? Approach it from the opposite angle. Try this: One Sunday, throw on your loudest lycra, climb on your bike and ride to church. Be sure to wear new shorts--not those worn out ones. Arrive a few mintutes late and walk all the way to the front. (Sure, a couple old ladies will gasp and faint, but they'll come around eventually--don't worry.) After the service, stroll outside and tinker with your rig as people mingle out. If there are any other lycra-loving, speed-addicted, bike junkies aroud, they'll find you! If your pastor is not one of these, you may need to avoid eye contact for a few weeks.
|Great Answer, Kristin!||MikeC|
Jun 15, 2001 7:04 AM
|I'm a Christian too, but I understand those who don't like people who wear their religion on their sleeves instead of in their hearts and actions.
Cyclists will respect you for being fast, holding a good line, avoiding obvious fredisms, and helping out other riders or your team.
Just live the life!
On the other hand, I wonder if the Board WOULD have been so tough on Steve if he asked "Are their any other Buddhists out there?"
|Great Answer, Kristin!||Alan B|
Jun 15, 2001 3:13 PM
|I'm with Kristin too. Yes, I'm Christian (and try to behave that way on this board), and I agree that my beliefs should be everywhere in my life, but, IMHO, you're better off leading by example than smacking people upside the head with a Bible. (Which is not to say you did that . . . well, maybe it is.)|
Jun 15, 2001 8:25 AM
|Who CARES what religion/denomination we are. We ride. That's what this forum is for. If you want someone to affirm your beliefs, visit your local church.|
|re: Religon?||keith m|
Jun 15, 2001 7:07 AM
|answer; yes. It's a guarentee that you will be ripped for bringing it up on this board though, I have been in the past just for mentioning praying and riding at the same time. Based upon the degradation of the posts the last few months, I don't think there is anything wrong with your question. But I would duck, the flaming will be fast and furious.|
|Religion and biking have a lot in common||Wailer|
Jun 15, 2001 8:16 AM
|Think about it, there are all kinds of religious beliefs, all kinds of bikes, all kinds of worshippers.
You have the "true believers" that find the spiritual cyclist is within themselves and the place of worship (church/bike) is secondary and you have those who believe their religion can only be expressed through greater and more ornate decorations and trappings to house their God. A comparison may be the difference between the simple tent Moses maintained for God in the old testament, when according to that scripture, God lived with man and they were seperated by no more than a goatskin. The, get on your bike and ride group. Versus say, the roman catholic church where God is a distant father who must be impressed through the building of finer and finer churches, gold plate, and exotic finishes. The, I own a Colnago C-40 and the amount I spent on my temple demonstrates my faith.
Then you have the agnostics and atheists who don't believe or those who understand, but fail to be impressed, those who boil down the abstract to the tangible. The "cycling is only exercise" crowd. Then you have the Satanists......I'm pretty sure those are the fat ones who wear pro team outfits and ride team issue bikes.
Yes, yes, lots of parallels.....
|nope...born again agnostic (nm)||ColnagoFE|
Jun 15, 2001 9:10 AM
|a new record?||4bykn|
Jun 15, 2001 9:43 AM
|Well, Steve, you may have inadvertantly set a new RBR record! So many replies, yet so few actual answers to your question. And to everyone else: If you don't like the question, don't respond!|
|Church of the Big Ring||nm|
Jun 15, 2001 9:51 AM
|recovering christian nm||ishmael|
Jun 15, 2001 10:07 AM
|Steve, I'm sorry...||Kristin|
Jun 15, 2001 10:10 AM
|If you're for real (not sure if this was flamebait), then I apologize. I meant this to be funny, but didn't proof it. When I read it later, I realized it came off a bit antagonistic. So if your a living, breathing person, please accept my apology.
I still hold my opinion about the topic though. Religion is a hotbed of controversy, and I avoid discussing it in an atmosphere such as this one. So, when in Rome...I wear a toga and a good pair of Berks.
With regard to church and lycra. I've walked around my church bunches of times all decked out in tight shorts and bright shoes. My bikes even been in church. I'm thinking about getting it baptized this summer! :-) But, I have yet to ride to a service. Even at my church that would turn a few heads.|
Jun 15, 2001 10:14 AM
|Cycling is like church. Many attend, few understand.|
|Church of the Open Mind||We just did this last month...|
Jun 15, 2001 10:32 AM
|No, there are no other Christians out here. We're all a bunch of self centered hedonistic fornicating sinners going straight to hell....in a hurry...'cause we ride bikes. |
This has zero to do with cycling and is entirely personal - ya wanna know about my sexual habits and preferences?
Don't try to hide behind the, "I was just asking a simple and harmless question." Give it a rest or I'll tell you what to do with your bible...
Jun 15, 2001 10:37 AM
|That previous reply was me - my screen name defaulted from replying to the "overrated bike poll".|
Jun 15, 2001 11:10 AM
|We now know that grz mnky is NOT a Christian. (One could have guessed this anyway by the way he writes.)|
|So is this good or bad?||grz mnky|
Jun 15, 2001 11:41 AM
|I need a really straight and simple answer...not that I'm going to do anything with it. I just want to know. |
I guess the real issue is not who is or is not Christian, but why the question is being asked and what purpose does it serve? Maybe the original poster has taken a vow to only associate with true Christians - I don't know, but who cares?
Labeling leads to segmentation and segmentation can lead to all sorts of "isms" and bigotry. What would be your reaction if someone asked what's your: race; sexual preference; hair color; politcal stance; view on capital punishment; thoughts on white supremacy; premarital sex (oppps, we know where Christians fall on this one - they *always* do what they're told); etc., etc., etc.
To be fair and without bias I think we should have a complete and exhaustive poll of all religous and non-religious belief systems.
Next up: A valve stem cap poll: Do you use 'em and if so what color?
Jun 15, 2001 12:04 PM
|Funny you should bring this up. I stopped using valve stems and discovered I was losing about 5lbs of air overnight. I started using them again, and my tire pressure stays fairly constant for a couple of days in a row.
Steve, here is a simple answer, I am.
|Yeah, but....||grz mnky|
Jun 15, 2001 5:28 PM
|....what *color*?! ;-)|
|I am. (nm)||Slow|
Jun 15, 2001 11:02 AM
|I shouldn't be doing this, but...||Dog|
Jun 15, 2001 11:06 AM
|This has nothing to do with cycling. Do Christian cyclists ride differently from non-Christian, or even non-religious?
I've found very good, decent people in my life that were both Christian and non-Christian. In fact, I have experienced no connection whatsoever between faith and being a decent person. McVeigh said he was a Christian, and even requested and received last rites this week. I've seen other non-Christians that led saintly lives.
I don't mean to offend, but I have found quite often that the people who profess their faith the most are the ones I must watch out for. For example, I moved into my house a few years ago. The people behind me had a dog that barked 24 hours a day. One day, when I was home with my very ill wife, I'd had enough and went to them and kindly asked if they would do something about the barking dog. They said, "It doesn't bark *that* much." I said, "well, it's too much."
Next day, I found several piles of dog poop in my back yard. I don't have a dog, and the yard is fenced in by a 6 foot solid privacy fence (required by code here), and the adjoining neighbors, no dogs. So, I wrote them a letter complaining of the barking and poop.
A few days later, the woman shows up at my house. First thing she said, "We are good Christian people..." (and denied any responsibility). Now, I was offended. She, and many others I've heard in my life similarly, have used the profession of their faith as if it's a credential that affords them higher credibility or respect. The problem is, the thing they are using it to cover up for is usually polar opposite of acting like "good Christian people."
So, to me, faith is personal, not to be thrust upon others, particularly in an irrelevant venue.
Nonetheless, I think it is good to have faith, and to practice what we each believe.
|Wow...you've said a lot here...||Kristin|
Jun 15, 2001 11:25 AM
You've expressed soooo many issues in this one little post. I'm compelled to respond. However, I definately don't want to post it on board. Do you mind if I send you a response offline?? No worries about things getting preachy--I'm not into that. But I do have some thoughts on the concerns you raised, and I'd like to express them.
|Wow...you've said a lot here...||Dog|
Jun 15, 2001 12:47 PM
|I shouldn't be doing this, but...||moe|
Jun 15, 2001 11:31 AM
|You were correct, you shouldn't have just posted that. You started by saying correctly that this has nothing to do with cycling, but then went on to justify why you needed to respond.
You next stated correctly that both Christian and non-Christians can be good, decent people, but then you singled out two Christians who most everyone would consider to be not-good, not-decent.
The original poster did not ask if readers were good or decent, just a simple question about who was a Christian.
You could have just not responded, but instead you chose to attack.
Your response says more about your character than the original question. Steve Sanders now knows if you are a Christain or not.
|Kinda Righteous Moe||grz mnky|
Jun 15, 2001 11:54 AM
|Maybe your response illustrates exactly why the question shouldn't have been asked in the first place. |
Doug's reply wasn't an attack, so why are you being defensive? I guess we now know which side of the organized opiate for the masses fence you fall on.
Starting up discussion on religion on a bicycle board is inappropriate and don't try to hide behind some facade of moral righteousness. How about we find out who is into "sinning"? I just want to know.
|I shouldn't be doing this, but...I Will||GW Rider|
Jun 15, 2001 2:01 PM
|Moe, how long have you been here? You should not question Doug's character on this board. He has been a pillar on this board for a quite a while, helping newbies and older patrons alike. He has also helped to frame the general prinicples of this board.
You may not agree with his post but he was correct in stating his opinion. And, how do you know what Doug's religious beliefs are? He stated that a person's belief are in fact personal. He did not state (correctly) what his beliefs are, just his thoughts regarding how some people have framed their beliefs to him.
Just my thoughts.
Keep the shiny side up and the dirty side down.
Jun 15, 2001 2:14 PM
|sort of missed my point||Dog|
Jun 15, 2001 3:21 PM
|First, I realize it may have appeared that way, but my point was not that Christians are bad. My point is that I believe the topic has no place here, nor in many aspects of public life. I was simply trying to demonstrate the impropriety of the topic here.
Second, no, no one here now knows my beliefs, and even now it would be antithetical for me to profess them here; my family, my close friends, the people I go to church with, and God, know my beliefs. Need I say more?
I didn't intend to attack anyone. I'm sorry if it came off that way. Actually, I didn't even address the particular person, or anyone in particular. I'm just a bit offended by inappropriate professions of faith and undue evangelism. As you may surmise, I'm not of an evangelistic faith, although I am not the slightest bit offended by those who are, but in an appropriate setting. I feel that religion is a deeply personal issue. That's all. Anyone is free to disagree, and I won't think ill of you if you do. Nonetheless, I, too, am entitled to an opinion.
Yes, my point, although a bit overstated or inartful, was that this discussion has no place here. My opinion. I think now we can see why. I could not have made that point by simply passing over the topic.
Yes, I'm sorry I brought it up now. I really didn't intend to offend, but due to the instrinsic nature of the topic, I should have, and did, know better.
|I shouldn't be doing this, but...||Skip|
Jun 16, 2001 12:05 PM
|There have been more people killed in the name of God over the years, than for any other reason --- All by good Christians, Budhists, Mohammeds, Catholics, Jews, etc.
|So much for the "General Forum Pact"||DINOSAUR|
Jun 15, 2001 1:46 PM
|Ironic that all this stuff popped up on the same day. If no one would have responded it would have dropped to the bottom of the page and disappeared. Sometimes the best thing to say is absolutely nothing.
Like I said before "The General Forum Pact" won't work. I guess it shows that we cyclists are an opinionated lot. Maybe it's from all that solitude and time spent alone.
"When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the human race"
H. G. Wells
Peace, Lad's and Lassies
|Amen, brother... ;)||4bykn|
Jun 15, 2001 2:35 PM
|Although as a Unitarian I don't pray, I can still say amen, can't I?|
|I understand your pain, bro||Rodger Cohen|
Jun 15, 2001 5:56 PM
|Christian riders are hard to find, most people I know ride MTB.
It's funny how defensive/offensive people get about a simple question. Last time I checked, "who here is christian?" implies "hey, christians please reply and say hello." It's all right bro, I feel your pain. Luckily I have two brothers to ride with.
Ok, here is my reply: hello, I am a christian and it's nice to meetyou.
|Not arguing in any way...||Joe B.|
Jun 15, 2001 7:25 PM
|...but to many non-Christians what it really implies is "Who here is fit to be my friend/aquaintence/riding buddy?"
Same as if I posted and said "I'm white, just wondering who else here is?" might imply that I will guage the worth of opinions and viewpoints based on who answers that they are or are not white. Honestly, I can think of no other reason I'd want to know about people's race on a cycling related internet forum, nor can I think of any other reason why it would seem necessary to poll people on their religious beliefs on a cycling related internet forum.
Still (despite my own hopefully-non-inflammatory response), I agree with whoever said it would have gone away on its own if not answered.
Another suggestion of "Don't feed the Troll" responses to these types of threads, humbly submitted by a newbie to the board. If I had seen this one first, I would have done just that. (See my response to the "Forum Pact Part II" thread.)
And might I also add that I can't see how I've benefitted, or in any way been affected by, learning the religious orientation of some of the forum members.
Jun 16, 2001 8:00 AM
|If the poster is interested in finding fellow Christian cyclists to start another forum, e-mail, or ride with, why not post a message asking Christian cyclists on the board to e-mail him or otherwise get in touch with him? Posts simply asking whether others are Christian, Hindu, gay, black, Asian, disabled, or anything else having to do with personal beliefs, background, or status are suspect in my opinion. Why is the poster asking?|
|>1.5 Billion Christians in the world||DaveG|
Jun 16, 2001 7:46 AM
|1/3 of the world's population. Surely you can one to ride with.|
|If, in fact you're looking for fellows of your belief||Lazy|
Jun 16, 2001 8:19 AM
|I suggest contacting the ICCC (Inernational Christian Cycling Club). They have a racing team here in CO and I'm pretty sure they have a presence elsewhere. If you would like contact info, let me know and I'll get it for you.
If you're conducting a demographic study, count me under "The league of agnostics". Is that a church coming down the lane?
Jun 16, 2001 3:43 PM
|Wow, just look at all the absolute hatred and fear his question caused in the responders.
No wonder why there is a stereotype of a roadbike rider.