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Lance and Jan, and doping.(6 posts)

Lance and Jan, and doping.Groucho Marx
Jun 12, 2001 8:09 PM
Hypothetically lets assume that Lance and Jan Ullrich are clean of any banned substances on the UCI's list. You can't really be sure, but I think both of them are. Sure they probably take some sorts of "vitamins" or something to help recovery, but lets assume nothing on the UCI's banned list.

Lately I've been bummed out reading about all this cheating going on. And it IS cheating. Some people think we should live with it; some people say absolutely not; but the rules say in that in either case it's cheating.

Now I for one am filled with great hope to think that the two greatest cylcist in the sport right now are clean, (or at least follow the rules), and are completely dominant. I grin from ear to ear when I think of lance destroying any doped up losers in the Tour field up in the pyrenes, and Jan leaving everyone in his dust in the olympics. I can't help but feel bouyed by the fact that hard work and guts, can still overcome even the cheaters.

Now with that in mind, this is where I offer up a prayer that both lance and Jan are clean, or at least follow the rules.(ie. no banned substances)
Well Grouch, i really want to agree with you, but...Largo
Jun 12, 2001 8:49 PM
Jan, while he is my favourite pro in the peloton, is still a product of the old Eastern block system, so he must have been on something at some point.
And LA, with the money of some huge sponsors behind him, must have access to some pretty exotic stuff that isn't on the banned list yet.
Cheating? Absolutely.
But i don't think there is any way around it. As long as there is competition, there will be cheating.
I think the Italians are making way to much of this.
Later
Largo
So what wouldn't be cheating?mr_spin
Jun 13, 2001 10:17 AM
If it's not on the banned list NOW, it is by definition not banned, and anyone can use it. Therefore, it can't be cheating. To say that using something that isn't on the list YET is cheating is absurd!

If you want to race drinking only pure water obtained from melting thousand year-old ice drilled out of the polar ice caps, be my guest. But when you lose, don't claim everyone else is cheating because they are drinking Cytomax or Gatorade.

Cheating is gaining an unfair advantage through artificial means. That has to be the standard, and it can't be applied retroactively. It also means that using any artificial means not specifically banned cannot be considered unfair, because anyone can use it. If you choose not to, that's your choice, but it ain't cheating if anyone else does.

Funny how the term "cheating" has grown so inclusive. What's not so funny is trying to soil the names of riders like Jan and Lance. If you had read Lance's book, I think you'd know that there is little chance he would harm his body after what he has been through. And Jan, I'm a big fan, but if he's been doping, he sure isn't doing it right! These guys are simply great riders who are genetically blessed.
What are the banned substances?STEELYeyed
Jun 12, 2001 8:51 PM
Do they consider food suppliments,asprin,caffiene ect. dope? or is it only steroids and illegal drugs.
STEELYeyed
Look here. Banned substances are listed in the "rules" section.9WorCP
Jun 12, 2001 9:29 PM
http://www.uci.ch/english/index.htm
If your not cheating your not trying!!!Canidraftyou
Jun 13, 2001 12:38 AM
Sorry ya'll, there is not a sport that is clean, all sports have abuse of substances. Thats the way it is. Don't make it right, its just a fact. Its still Human and Machine vs. Human and Machine. If I have a full Ultegra bike and another has a full Dura Ace bike is that fair? If I weigh 189 lbs. and the next guy weighs 140 lbs. is that fair? Crap I can go on and on. Is drafting off another cyclist who is not a team mate cheating? If thats not enough let me know, I have more.

Later,

Peace out