|Tired of waiting for Polar 710 HRM...||campyguy|
Jun 7, 2001 12:31 PM
|Polar has got to figure out their marketing scheme and how it relates to when the product will actually be available. After placing a pre-order with WCP, I have waited over three months longer than the promised delivery date, which was also delayed several times. I sent a mail to Polar USA voicing my disapproval of their 'dropping the ball' on this one, only to receive a short form letter placing the blame elsewhere. Yesterday, WCP informed me that Polar was telling their dealers that the 710s would not be available until the end of the summer. I promptly cancelled my pre-order. Boy do I wish Polar had a legitimate competitor. Nobody makes a HRM that has so many features and (despite some bad experiences) durability. Wow. Anyone else tired of Polar's ineptness getting this product out?|
|re: Tired of waiting for Polar 710 HRM...||Live Steam|
Jun 7, 2001 12:36 PM
|I'm waiting for the 510. They stated an availability date of 6/18. As I did not preorder, I haven't checked to verify if this is still the case. I want the 510 because it is cycling specific. The 710 is also, but with a few more bells.|
|re: Tired of waiting for Polar 710 HRM...||Ron L|
Jun 7, 2001 6:23 PM
|I have a few of the 510s and waiting for the 710s to show-up. I like the XT-Cycle better. It is half the size, half the weight and dark blue. The 510 has this bright blue which I can do without. If you want it, e-mail me (two left)
|Feature Creep||grz mnky|
Jun 7, 2001 2:05 PM
|The S710 and S510 are probably victims of feature creep and now it's vapor-ware. The engineering guys probably outlined what was theoretically possible, the marketing guys probably latched onto the ideas and made a bunch of statements and splashed stuff at the trade shows and now want the engineering guys to deliver. Problem is the engineering guys are struggling to get it to work. They keep saying that it's "trouble with getting parts." I think what they mean is they're having trouble with getting parts to work right. No one in this day and age will allowed be held up so long by their suppliers. |
They are pretty arogant as an organization - they actually expect you to send the unit back to them to change the battery for $25 or the warranty is voided - yeah right. Used to be you couldn't get operating instructions from the web unless you had a valid serial number for the unit you were inquiring about. Sent them a nasty-gram on that and never got a response. They did change their policy. Replacement chest straps were $90 and you could get a better transmitter with a stronger signal and replacable battery from Performance.
Also bear in mind - they stated to me that warranty replacement orders will be filled before new orders. I seriously question if they'll actually stick to this policy. I've been waiting for 6 mos.
|also weary||Duane Gran|
Jun 8, 2001 5:40 AM
|I am also perterbed with this situation. Thank goodness I have a decent HRM to use for the time being. The thing that really upsets me is that I know Polar is lying when they say that they have a shortage of parts. They have been saying this for months. I wish they would just fess up and admit that they overreached in their goals.|
|Maybe the strange looks can be attributed to something else.||mike mcmahon|
Jun 7, 2001 12:45 PM
|I mean, with a name like "CrazyMan" you might have something else going on that's causing people to give you strange looks (kidding). As you will see from the folks that responded to the recent request for info on good hydration systems, not all roadies are averse to Camelbaks.|
|Herd mentality.||Len J|
Jun 7, 2001 12:47 PM
|IMHO just like most people, Roadies (SOME) don't handle change well. If the Peleton was suddenly wearing camelbaks, you would see more of them.
MY 2 cents
|re: Why do Roadies hate Camelbacks?||Geko|
Jun 7, 2001 12:50 PM
|I say rock on with your camelback. The only reason that I don't carry one on me is because they cost 80 bucks. Or at least the only one I would prefer. I think water bottles are just the tradition and some people feel hindered by the pack. Do you get a lot of sweat buildup behind the pack on a hot sunny day?|
|re: Why do Roadies hate Camelbacks?||ColnagoFE|
Jun 7, 2001 1:12 PM
|i use em on a MTB, but they feel awkward and too hot on longer road rides. i rarely have any problems running out of water.|
Jun 7, 2001 1:32 PM
|I use mine on longer rides but it never occurred to me that it was hot. Usually, I will fill it up halfway the night before, freeze it, top it off in the morning, then go. It stays very cool on my back for a couple of hours. Even after melting, I have never noticed that it is hot.
But I have gotten funny looks or comments from other roadies. I don't care. Drinking constantly from that tube keeps me going faster and longer, so who cares what others think.
Jun 7, 2001 4:56 PM
|i suppose i use bottles on the road out of tradition as much as anything else. tried a camelback but didn't like it. maybe it's the more aero position that the camelback feels weird on? not sure.|
Jun 7, 2001 6:11 PM
|OK, what Colnago do you ride?? Just curious, since I ride a Colnago myself.|
Jun 8, 2001 8:30 AM
|colnago master xl in ad-4. i love it! other than being a bit heavier than other bikes by 1/2 lb or so it's the best bike i've ridden--even compared to my previous Merlin XL which it replaced (which was wrecked when a truck ran into me). now if i can just convince the wife to let me buy a set of ksyriums for it! I demoed a set last year and they seemed like great wheels.|
Jun 8, 2001 8:42 AM
|Personally, I covet a new CT-1. But I have no reason to buy one (translated: my wife would kill me). My bititan, with Speeddreams and Campy record 10spd weighs in around 16lbs. It is the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. Now, if I could only get that extra 10lbs off my gut.
P.S. Did the Merlin frame get 'bent' on impact with the truck? I hit a dog at 40mph, did an endo, slid a few feet, and even with the horrible rep of the bititan, not even a scratch! I can't say that much for my fork, my wheels, my crank, or, especially, my body. I take it that you came out of the impact OK too.
Jun 8, 2001 10:10 AM
|The Merlin probably could have been ridden, but the LBS put it on a table and it was slightly out of spec so I made the ins. co cough up for a full replacement. The bike was only 6 months old. Always thought it was a bit flexy so I went for a steel bike to replace it and had it narrowed down to a Master XL or a Serotta CSI. This was before the CSI had custom geometry at no additional cost so I went for the Master since it fit me stock. So far it's been a great bike. Super stiff but comfortable on longer rides as well. Probably not the first choice for a race bike due to weight (about 20 lbs with beefy wheels and 10 speed chorus), but I only racce a few times a year as it is anyway.|
Jun 7, 2001 1:24 PM
|I would never use one because I've never had any problems with bottles - which I use on my mtb, too (weird, I know). But Camelbacks are like hairy legs and black socks, they don't fit in the roadie aesthetic. And learning to drink from a water bottle at speed on rough pavement is one of those small skills that many roadies pride themselves on.|
|I used to use my Camelbak all the time and was a big||bill|
Jun 7, 2001 1:32 PM
|booster of them, trumpeting their convenience and the amount of water that you would drink because of their convenience. The "hot back" thing never bothered me.
So, why don't I use mine anymore? I am troubled. Maybe my self-esteem and individuality is not as grounded as I once thought. It seems that, the more I noticed what other riders were not using, the more it seemed that the backback was just too much trouble. I have been using bottles now for awhile. I drop the bottles all the time (FRED!), and I don't drink as much as with my Camelbak. What the hell is wrong with me? Why did I change?
This weekend I'm a gonna get out my Camelbak.
|Not all do||DCP|
Jun 7, 2001 1:32 PM
|At least half of the club I ride with use them. I don't, but its only because I don't see an advantage. Obviously others do. We always take a rest stop at someplace where I can buy something to refill my bottles, and I prefer that. I also prefer having the weight on the frame instead of on me and not having to clean the thing. To each his own.
Why are they always dark colors anyway? To keep your coffee warm?
|re: Why do Roadies hate Camelbacks?||MikeC|
Jun 7, 2001 1:37 PM
|Roadies seem to spend an inordinate amount of time riding "seriously." That means that you're competing against your body, if nothing else. We often tend to focus on the act of riding to the exclusion of anything else: scenery, people, weather, etc. I think that's one reason that roadies are often accused of being rude. They're just preoccupied.
So, I think that one reason roadies tend to be averse to Camelbaks is that we don't want to feel anything extraneous when we're riding. We want shirts, shorts, and helmets that don't let us know that they're there, that don't compete with being "in the zone." I know that Camelbaks can feel pretty comfortable, but you always know it's there.
Of course, the other reason is the same thinking behind shaved legs and eschewing mtb shoes and pedals: it's part of being part of the scene, or out of the scene! Stupid, ain't it?
|Make my back sweat, take away an excuse to stop||cory|
Jun 7, 2001 1:48 PM
|So what's wrong with just stopping for a minute here to drink some water? Not that I need to catch my breath or anything...|
|It's CAMELBAK :)||Breck|
Jun 7, 2001 1:51 PM
|Texas sized "C" |
all other sized "AMELBA" :)
Texas sized "K"
Get it right or DIE! T:)
Thought up by some dude in Weatherford, Texas.
All others are Kinko Copies.
CHEERS all mah home BOYZ
|re: Why do Roadies hate Camelbacks?||Len J|
Jun 7, 2001 2:03 PM
|So let me get this straight:
It seems clear that most (all) riders hydrate more with a camelbak than without.
Hydration is good.
"Roadies" don't think Hydration packs are cool.
So what we are talking about is a choice between adequate body maintenance and fitting in. No wonder most don't use hydration packs!! I think I've got it.
|re: Why do Roadies hate Camelbacks?||DINOSAUR|
Jun 7, 2001 2:05 PM
|Along with all the others comments why roadies don't like them; tradition. That's why bikes have water bottle cage bosses. On real hot days I ride with three bottles, two on my bike and I stash a third in one of my jersey pockets. There is always some type of water supply available somewhere on your route, if you look carefully.
Camelbacks are probably more geared toward MB's who ride in issolated areas with no water unless you want to drink dirty creek water that has God knows what in it...
|Humbly disagree...||Len J|
Jun 7, 2001 2:12 PM
|IMHO If tradition were the real answer then it would apply to other advancements. I.E. down tube shifters, frame materials, etc. I agree that it is part of the reason but I still think that herd mentality is the main culprit.
A 70 ounce Pack supplies correct hydration for about 1 & 1/2 hours (On a hot summer day)of riding for me. I still break then to refill. Riding in isolated area doesn't apply to me.
|re: Why do Roadies hate Camelbacks?||mackgoo|
Jun 7, 2001 2:11 PM
|Boy, I didn't know this was such a debateable topic. I'll have to look for those looks next time I'm on a long ride. When I ride I like to ride, so if the bottles will get mr through I go with the bottles. If the ride warrants more I'll take the bottles and fill up the aero camel back, go through the bottles then start sucking of the back. The last thing I want to do is stop period.|
|Here are my reasons ...||bianchi boy|
Jun 7, 2001 2:25 PM
|I don't hate Camelbaks because I've never tried one. However, I don't plan to start using one because: 1) I've heard they are a royal pain to clean and can get all grungy and unusable if you don't; 2) I'd rather spend the money on other expensive bike equipment that would do me more good, like new shoes or pedals; 3) Two water bottles is generally enough for me, and if I need more water I don't mind stopping for a rest by that time; 4) It gets pretty hot down here in NC and a Camelbak seems like it would be like wearing an extra article of clothing, plus it seems like the water would get all warm anyway; 5) What would I put in my water bottle cages?|
|Here are my reasons ...||Len J|
Jun 7, 2001 2:42 PM
|1.) Hard to clean. I have had one for 3 years. Use it every day (almost) Clean it with Hot water immediatly after a ride (Including hose). Use Gatorade almost exclusivly and never had a "grunge" problem.
2.)I could argue that proper hydration, especially on a very hot day would do as much or more good. I know that I drink more with the pack than I would with bottles.
3.) Fair enough
4.) My pack (Rocket) is insulated, so it keeps fluid colder thn bottles and it has a wicking cover on the side that is nearest my back. I do notice some small additional sweating, but it is not uncomfortable.
5.) More fluids for even a longer ride without stops?
|5) sports drinks NM||Haiku d'état|
Jun 7, 2001 3:29 PM
|'Cause Lance Doesn't Use One. (nm)||grz mnky|
Jun 7, 2001 2:51 PM
|re: Why do Roadies hate Camelbacks?||KEN2|
Jun 7, 2001 3:41 PM
|I don't get the "don't want the extra weight on my bike" thing about water bottles. Maybe it's because I weigh 195, but "I don't want the extra weight on my butt" with a Camelbak. On the bike the extra weight is low on the frame so it's not like it will upset the feel of the bicycle.|
|Image is Everything.||grz mnky|
Jun 7, 2001 5:51 PM
|Yeah, but with the extra weight on your body it's available to push on the pedals. There's also the whole response thing of an unsprung mass (bolted to the bike) vs. a sprung mass (connected to the rider whose body acts like a mass-spring-dampener). |
You still have to lug the whole works up the hill and I'm always ammused at the amount of crap people will carry in a pack - including more water than what they really need, between refill stops.
Jun 7, 2001 5:29 PM
|I'd hate to toss the Camelbak every time I hit a killer hill in a race. It would cost a fortune.|
Jun 7, 2001 5:57 PM
|I'm one of those riders that needs a lot of water, I use the C.Razor and don't care what others think; I ride for myself. I prefer a simple twist of the head to get a drink, rather than reaching down for the bottle (I use the bottles to carry carbo goodies) I generally drink about 70oz/35m...which is more than the norm and also, on Sunday rides, there aren't many places to purchase water.|
|re: Why do Roadies hate Camelbacks?||Dutchy|
Jun 7, 2001 6:24 PM
|I used a camelback for a while on my road bike and I also caved in to peer pressure, just like my aero bars. After a while I noticed some strange looks (snobs). But on a hot day I still use it, with an extra bottle in the cage. You can also fit energy foods into the side of the packs, which keeps it off your body, by not using your jersey pockets. They are great in traffic, you can drink and keep both hands on the brakes. The main reason MTBs use them is 1) Most downhill MTBs only have one cage. 2) If they have a cage the bottle gets covered in mud and creek slime. CHEERS.|
Jun 7, 2001 7:07 PM
|Less weight means more speed. And if your not fast, you need to look fast. Camelbacks are not cool, too heavy and dont look fast. I agree with another, who said, Camelbacks are like hairy legs.
|Camelback...||mr tornado head|
Jun 7, 2001 9:12 PM
|I respectfully disagree. And so far, I've been pretty good at not caving in to roadie peer pressure. They are aero (let's see, last year's women's hour record was won with a hydration pack...), and the right ones don't make you sweat much.
All that said, I use a cheap nashbar one. But I only use it on long rides (more than 2 1/2 hours) because I just don't know where I may get water and I've only one bottle cage (stud broke off the second one). On those rides, water in the pack, carbo-fluid in the water bottle. And I'm set for a while.
To clean, add hot water, a handful of uncooked rice and about a tablespoon of salt. Shake, Shake, shake, rinse and you're good to go. Pretty quick and simple for me.
|roadies only follow...||BigMig|
Jun 7, 2001 9:41 PM
|Roadies don't lead they follow...why else do you think they have turned drafting into a science.
They need to have someone of great stature in the sport approve of it before they do it. Since pros have a car following them with all the water they want the odds of seeing Lance sport a Camelbak in the TdF is rare at best.
However, lets look at this from the perspective of someone who rides 300 miles a week for fun or maybe even amature racing.
- Hydration. Science says 5-8 oz per/15min. Two big water bottle will get you just over 2 hrs of proper hydration on a hot day, Camelbak will get you close to 3hrs.
- Storage. If you ride alone you are probably carrying a pump, tube, keys, and maybe even a CliffBar. So...do you store it neatly in your Rocket or Bullet with room to spare or do you have one of those sexy little under the seat neon yellow pouches. And you dare to call the Camelbak unsightly? Oh, no you say, you keep it in your back pocket...hmmm...comfy. Wait, no, you don't need that stuff...well, then you probably don't ride far enough to even worry about water.
- Weight. Sure, just a bit heavier than two full waterbottle but you also get more hydration power. Sure, its probably not for racing but just think of how much stronger your non-camelbak days would be if you where used to training with the added weight? Oh, don't forget to take off the weight of two cages since you won't need them with a Camelbak.
- Perspiration. I have a Bullet and don't even think about it being on my back. It has coolmax mesh on the back side and actually cools you off a bit from the water.
- Cleaning. If you think its hard to rinse out a plastic bag then I would hate to be your bike mechanic when you bring your bike in for its yearly tune up.
And, best of all...I always have cool water left when my double-cage buddies are trying to suck the last drop of boiling water from their bottles.
- Additional MTBer advantages. No reaching for your bottles on bumpy trails. No mud and horse dung covered bottle to sip from.
Why is it so hard to find a road jersey with less than 7 colors on it? YEAH, you guys should be fasion consious about what is on your back...HA!
|re: Why do Roadies hate Camelbacks?||LC|
Jun 7, 2001 10:27 PM
|I find that the pack gives me lower back pain on longer rides, and on shorter rides I don't need that much water. It also puts more weight on your sit bones and I would rather have the bike carry the weight. I gave it a chance many times and just never liked it on the road bike. Works great on the Mt. Bike mainly because you move around more and keeps mud out of your mouth.|
|they serve their purpose, but...||freespirit|
Jun 8, 2001 7:32 AM
|Camelbaks work fine for mountain biking, where you don't want to have to be removing your hands for long from the bars, reach for a bottle, and then hold the bottle up in the air to drink. Plus, bottles tend to get nasty when riding through muck. You don't do a lot of standing on a mtb, so the weight on you isn't as important.
Bottles have their advantages. The weight is off your body, so when standing or even sitting for long periods, the bike bears the weight. They don't get you hot like a Camelbak. They can be easily refilled or exchanged on the run, even.
I just don't like the hot, sweaty, heavy things on my back. A 72 ounce Razor weighs over 4 1/2 pounds! Plus, either cinch the thing up really tight, or it moves around while climbing and sprinting hard. Forget it.
OTOH, for ultra-distance riding, where you are cruising at relatively slow speed for even days at a time, where continued optimal hydration is vital, they make some sense, especially in the aerobar position. Don't have to interrupt your aero position or rythym to drink, so you are more likely to keep hydrated.
|re: Why do Roadies hate Camelbacks?||lrobertg1|
Jun 8, 2001 8:10 AM
|Let me preface this by saying I am a MTN Biker who has just started getting into the road to train for a 350-mile charity ride. Based on my experiences I will probably stay on the road to cross train.
Now about the Camelback:
I use both. For rides over 50 miles - I fill my Camelback with plain water and use a bottle with cytomax. I carry a couple of refills of the powder so I can mix more if I need it.
On shorter rides (<50 miles) I just use the camelback. On my MTN Bike I only use the Camelback.
I have never had a problem with this system. If anyone wants to complain about the weight of using both my reply is: I am not a professional rider and I could probably use the extra workout (if there is any :)
|Water in one bottle, gatorade in the other......||runstevierun|
Jun 8, 2001 10:36 AM
|can't do that with a camelback.
Plus bottles give greater flow volume in my experience.
I use a camelback for MTB riding but only 'cause
I can't keep bottles on the frame.
Also, for a road rider, there's a Fred factor working here.......