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Lightspeed Classic or Tuscany(23 posts)

Lightspeed Classic or Tuscanycashnloaf
Jun 6, 2001 7:57 PM
I need help deciding between these two bikes. Anyone have any opinions?
re: Lightspeed Classic or TuscanySTEELYeyed
Jun 6, 2001 8:25 PM
I am riding a 59cm Arenberg this year,its my first Ti frame,I test rode a Tuscany with the same spec and I could not tell the difference between the two,other than the price. They are both comfy as hell,but
the Classic is a better frame for racing,if you have never owned a Litespeed,its like belonging to a club or something,I get alot of LS owners striking up conversation about the glory of Litespeed Ti.
STEELYeyed
Wait a minute....4bykn
Jun 7, 2001 12:47 AM
Your board name is STEELYeyed, and you ride Titanium???
Isn't that false advertising?
Wait a minute....STEELYeyed
Jun 7, 2001 7:21 AM
Actually,I took that name from the movie "Apollo 13" when one of the command module techs presented the Mission Commander with the retro-fit carbon filter for the lunar modual,and he replied"Sir,you are steely eyed missle man". I don't remember who played those parts but that was a great movie,I truly enjoyed it. I have not owned a steel frame since the mid-seventies,it was a Sears Free Spirit 10-speed,I used that bike for my paper route and an occasional rondevous with members of the opposite sex in nearby communities,I still have that bike.
STEELYeyed
Hey, cool...4bykn
Jun 7, 2001 9:41 AM
a buddy of mine had a Free Spirit, and I had a Collegiate 5-speed Schwinn. We'd argue the relative strengths of our respective rides, sounds like a pattern that would follow into today, what with all the Campy/Shimano, Mtb/roadie, steel/everything else, etc. Remember how heavy those bikes were?
Hey, cool...STEELYeyed
Jun 7, 2001 2:23 PM
About 28lbs.with empty water bottle........those were the days my friend.
STEELYeyed
We thought they'd never end..........<nm>4bykn
Jun 8, 2001 12:49 AM
I have owned a Classic forLazyrider
Jun 6, 2001 10:39 PM
4 years and I cannot tell you how much I love the bike. When people spend so much on their bikes, they tend to idealize them. I have ridden it long enough that the "novelty" has passed and I see the bike for what it is, awesome. I like it over the Tuscany because the traditional geometry and the tapering of top tube, sculpted seat tube and front derailleur braze on etc. It is unbelievably comfortable but stiff enough to hammer. I weigh 185-195lbs and am content with all aspects of rode manners. I have a Dura ace group with speedplay pedals and Mavic Open pros. I changed the skewers and put very light tires (20c specialized team turbos without flak jacket) and very light tubes (butyl). Weight is a definite 17.5 lbs in a 57cm frame. I wanted the Classic because it is classic, no curved seat stays but the Tuscany is a nice ride though. It is a hair lighter than the Classic but the classic has a better ride overall (balanced). Mine is highly polished which I don't think they make anymore and it looks great. I ride it and clean it with Windex. The bright brushed they offer now though is nice too and you can paint it but what is the sense of having a ti bike that is painted? no paint = low maintenance. It is aging nicely like a good watch that looks like it is used well. My bike doesn't have the S curved chain stays like the new model but other than that they haven't changed geometry. That is my review and just a little history, Lance actually rode a Litespeed Classic when he won the world championships and Tour Du ponts in the 90s and rode a litespeed disguised as a trek in time trial in 99 Tour win. He publicly stated they were the best bikes he's ridden but Trek pays him big $$ to ride their's exclusively now. People bash Litespeed because they are popular now and covet Seven, MErlin , Moots which are all great bikes but they act like Litespeed is making Huffy quality now. People idealize these other more obscure bikes because they are rare and when I bought my Litespeed there were fewer on the rode and people longed for them. Alot of pros ride disguised litespeed and if they are good enough for them then they are for us. It is ridiculous, the welds are beautiful and guaranteed for life. Buy one and you'll see what I mean. Good luck
I have owned a Classic forVaMootsman
Jun 7, 2001 8:45 AM
You sound like Larry M defending your L-speed. I don't care one iota how 'big' the company is that makes a product. If they produce a fair priced, honestly advertised, consistant quality product, then I'm all over it.

They don't.
so, everybody's wrong but you? You may prefer other bikes,bill
Jun 7, 2001 9:29 AM
but I still don't get your bile. In the time I've spent on this board, I've seen almost every bike loved and every bike bashed by someone. Some people probably do know more than others, but only someone with truly broad experience can speak authoritatively, and I don't think that anyone with truly broad experience would speak in the absolutes you use, simply because not much in life is absolute. So Litespeed isn't absolutely consistent. So what? Absolute consistency, particularly when you are producing as many bikes as Litespeed, is impossible. Does that mean if you got a good one you can't possibly have a good one because Litespeeds aren't consistent?
I have owned a Classic forLarry Meade
Jun 7, 2001 3:03 PM
Leave me out of this. I have found that it does no good to even answer questions about Litespeed any more because "RiderXYZ" who learned bike mechanics from the Wright brothers says they stink. My personal experience is to the contrary so I will not engage in these discussions any more. If anyone wants to talk about Litespeeds with one who rides one feel free to email me. Unprovoked attacks like this in the forum aren't really very cool.
XXXLazyrider
Jun 7, 2001 3:25 PM
you are a douche bag
XXXVaMootsman
Jun 8, 2001 9:00 AM
Easy there, Lazyrider. There is no reason to get all hyper and use bad words. I'm just telling the truth.....their ads are what piss me off. 'The ONLY company that extensively cold works and stress relieves our tubing...'

bullshit, an out and out lie.

The multi shaped tubes are a marketing gimmick and I'd be willing to bet not one hour of 'research' went into deciding, "well a 10 sided seat tube is better because...blah, blah"

A 'sheet' of 6/4 down tube..... is not a tube.

Pop rivet bottle bosses are a 'cheap' way to do it.

Bonded aluminum seat post sleeves and head tube are total cheese (not all Litespeeds to their credit)

Awful finishes (in my opinion)

Amazingly inconsistant quality.

There are many ti frames that ride equal/better and are much more consistant in terms of finish/alignment/quality. Period

Did I mention the amazingly inconsistant quality? If they were decent bikes, I'd like them.

They are not.

I can ride by you, Lazyrider, smugly knowing, my bike(s) are better than yours. nah, nah, nah, nah.
X, I did a search on your login to see if you ever have anything valuable to say. As I suspected, despite the number of posts, remarkably few had any real value whatsoever. You generally post sniping little comments that do little more than demean yourself. You have said in the past that you have been around the industry for many years. You have spoken about being part of the "in crowd" at Interbike, etc. Why don't you want to share any of your vast knowledge with the members of this group? Are we only worthy of your derision but not your knowledge? As little substance as you have posted in the general forum, it is on the order of several magnitudes more than you have posted in the components forum. Someone with your incredible amount of experience should surely be able to contribute more valuable information than what has been posted to date. You talk about how superior the bikes you ride are but the brand(s) of said bikes remain as anonymous as you. It seems the only time you ever get really uptight is when someone mentions the "L" brand from Tennessee. You go out of your way to slam this company at any opportunity. It's starting to look like you have an axe to grind with them. I am not saying any of this to be mean but in the hopes that you will see that you could be a very valuable contributor here and not just another anonymous troll. I don't have a problem with your wanting to remain anonymous if fact as you can see, I have chosen to remain so myself. I do have a problem with using this to snipe at other posters for entertainment. At this point, given the general nature of your postings, you have zero credibility with me and I suspect many others here. I would think that you might like to try to improve your image a bit but if you don't that's cool. It's entirely your choice. Don't feel that you need to respond to me as it will not elicit any further discussion from me. With me, your behavior has made you persona non grata. Adios, Z-monsterZZZ
Jun 8, 2001 11:16 AM
approved
"X, I did a search on your login to see if you ever have anything valuable to say. As I suspected, despite the number of posts, remarkably few had any real value whatsoever. You generally post sniping little comments that do little more than demean yourself. You have said in the past that you have been around the industry for many years. You have spoken about being part of the "in crowd" at Interbike, etc. Why don't you want to share any of your vast knowledge with the members of this group? Are we only worthy of your derision but not your knowledge? As little substance as you have posted in the general forum, it is on the order of several magnitudes more than you have posted in the components forum. Someone with your incredible amount of experience should surely be able to contribute more valuable information than what has been posted to date. You talk about how superior the bikes you ride are but the brand(s) of said bikes remain as anonymous as you. It seems the only time you ever get really uptight is when someone mentions the "L" brand from Tennessee. You go out of your way to slam this company at any opportunity. It's starting to look like you have an axe to grind with them. I am not saying any of this to be mean but in the hopes that you will see that you could be a very valuable contributor here and not just another anonymous troll. I don't have a problem with your wanting to remain anonymous if fact as you can see, I have chosen to remain so myself. I do have a problem with using this to snipe at other posters for entertainment. At this point, given the general nature of your postings, you have zero credibility with me and I suspect many others here. I would think that you might like to try to improve your image a bit but if you don't that's cool. It's entirely your choice. Don't feel that you need to respond to me as it will not elicit any further discussion from me. With me, your behavior has made you persona non grata. Adios, Z-monster"ZZZ
Jun 8, 2001 11:19 AM
approved
subject deleted for brevityLarry Meade
Jun 8, 2001 2:04 PM
Good message, BAD formatting.
Tjeanloz posted a good comparison of these two frames...Lucky
Jun 7, 2001 6:23 AM
Last summer. I can't find it now. I do recall he pointed out that the Tuscany costs less than the Classic, but uses more of the engineered and shaped tubing Litespeed makes. If you believe there are real benefits from the shape engineering, this makes the Tuscany a better value, since you are getting more technology for the money. I saw no advantage to shelling out more for the Classic to get no tangible improvement. Bought the Tuscany last August and have been very happy. Maybe Tjeanloz will see this and give you the info straight up.

Kathy :-)
Now that I have some time,TJeanloz
Jun 7, 2001 10:14 AM
After graduating, I find myself suddenly unemployed and able to write a dissertation on this particular subject.

If you're looking for a better 'ride', particularly if you're not a 130lbs weakling like myself, the Tuscany will be really well suited to you. The Tuscany is Litespeed's most advanced 3/2.5 frame. At retail, it costs less than the Classic, but actually costs more to make. The Tuscany utilizes a pretty nicely shaped downtube to temper flex in the bottom bracket area, curved seatstays for a softer ride, and a triangular top tube to really handle the torsional forces and make the bike handle like the racing machine that it is.

The Classic is, well, classic. I have beef with this design. It's the same beef that I have with Moots, pre-litespeed Merlin et. al. This frame design and execution hasn't changed appreciably since the early 1990s, while the technology in titanium bikes has. It's made of the same butted round tubes that gave titanium its flexy reputation. Don't get me wrong, this frame builds a great bike for the right person, but it is behind the curve technologically when compared to the Tuscany. Its salient feature is its classic lines- no funky tubes, no curved seatstays; if that's important to you, go for it. If ride is #1 in your heart, save some money and get the Tuscany. The Classic has some nice touches- front d. braze on etc. But it's not all that a titanium bike can be. My top problem with the Classic is the move to 1 1/8" headset. In general, I think 1 1/8" is the way to go. It's the result of good evolution. But where you have sold somebody on the classic lines of a bike, that customer is likely to want a quilled stem. And try finding a 1 1/8" threaded fork. Or for that matter a stem. I know you can reduce the headtube size, but why create an unnecessary problem?

So it boils down to what's important to you. If a traditional look is important, get a Classic and you'll love it- it will beat the pants off a lot of steel bikes out there. If ride is your primary concern, the Tuscany's the one for you.
Does Litespeed use butted tubing?Alex R
Jun 7, 2001 10:47 AM
Litespeed seems to be unique in touting the properties of "shaped" tubing, while everybody else (merlin, serotta, seven, ibis, dean, lemond) stresees the advantages of "butted" tubing.

Is litespeed's tubing a unifrom thickness, but variable shape? How does this compare to uniform shape and variable thickness?

Thanks a lot, I've actually been curious about this for some time.

ALex
Yesrailer
Jun 7, 2001 10:59 AM
I cant speak for the other frames, but my 97 Classic is butted and the top tube is ovalized at the front to handle specific forces.
butted tubing...ColnagoFE
Jun 7, 2001 1:19 PM
really doesn't affect the ride as much as it does the weight of a bike. it makes much more sense for steel as you can generally shave quite a bit of weight this way, but for TI it is expensive and really doesn't take all that much weight off. IMHO of course.
Classicmr_spin
Jun 7, 2001 8:54 AM
I love my Classic. I've never ridden a Tuscany. The Classic is a great all-around bike, but what I like best about it is that wonderful feeling of carving out turns. It's really responsive. I fly up and down hills without fear on this bike.

There are a few Litespeed bashers out there. Who knows what their agenda is. All I can say is that my bike is beautiful and extremely well made.

Everyone I know who owns a Litespeed loves it. That includes some Seven and Merlin owners, too.
I agree with Mr. Spin...RhodyRider
Jun 7, 2001 9:07 AM
...especially about the puzzling anti-Litespeed types. They seem particularly vociferous here at RBR, for whatever reason.
Regarding the bikes, I have a Litespeed Catalyst from 1997 which was the precursor of the Tuscany and was phased out in '98. It does have the same "stage-race" geometry as the Classic, however, and it is a superlative ride. Coupled with a Kestrel EMS fork, I find it a perfect package. I would vote for the more traditional Classic, but that's just my HO. Either way, have fun!