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Saddle Fore-Aft Positioning - Not KOPS(7 posts)

Saddle Fore-Aft Positioning - Not KOPSSpectre
Jun 2, 2001 11:16 AM
I heard a theory on saddle positioning that I had not heard before. The theory was that the saddle fore-aft position that feels most natural is the one at which the rider's torso is best balanced over the pedals. This allows the rider to generate maximum power & feel balanced on the bike. For example, a rider with a short torso will benefit from a more forward saddle position, whereas a rider with a long torso will feel that a position in which their saddle is pushed back is more natural.

Any thoughts on this?
Sorry for the double postSpectre
Jun 2, 2001 11:18 AM
Didn't think my original message got posted, because I was looking at a cached Web page.
What you said is true, however .....Live Steam
Jun 2, 2001 11:49 AM
a saddles fore or aft position is influenced by the knee position of the rider relative to the spindles. Improperly adjusted fore or aft, the saddle can be the cause of damaging knee strain. It is somewhat telling when you see a rider constantly readjusting their position on the saddle, either pushing themselves back or riding on the nose of the saddle. I think the body will find that natural position, but we then need to accept it and adjust accordingly. A preconceived notion of what one feels the saddle height and position should be over what is correct is foolish. I see some guys that want to have their saddle noticibly higher than the bars. In some cases it is too high and it is noticed in the sway of their hips as they peddle. A "LOOK" over comfort dumb.
I believe in KOP...C-40
Jun 2, 2001 1:03 PM
I firmly believe the optimum knee position relative to the pedal spindle is important. This optimum position is rarely directly over the pedal spindle, however. As strictly defined, KOP is just a starting point.

I'm on the short toro side, 5'-7" tall with 32-5/8" inseam, and ride a 55cm frame. I consider myself a spinner, but I still position my knee around 1cm behind the pedal spindle.

Moving the saddle forward from a neutral position will increase cadence, but reduces the amount of torque that can be applied (and vice versa).

Since power equals torque times cadence, both are equally important. The key is to find the optimum position. The optimum position can change, depending on the terrain being ridden. A more forward position may enchance speed on a flat course. Moving the saddle back a bit can enhance climbing ability for hilly routes.

I've never noticed a problem with weight balance, regardless of saddle position. What many riders suffer from is a lack of abdominal or back strength. They may resort to extreme saddle positions to help hold themselves up.
I believe in KOP...JohnG
Jun 3, 2001 7:31 PM
Sounds like good advice.

The original question/statement sounds like total hooey! Like C40 (5' 8" with 31.75" inseam) I like to ride with a fairly rear hip position. Also, I've noticed that as I get stronger I tend to move my hips more towards the rear..... I can develop a lot more power from this position.

Hey, C40 that's one big rig you got..... you must be pretty laid over with that big of a frame. What stem size do you use? FWIW, I just built a 54cm MasterX .... although it's not done so I can't comment on the fit yet. It should be purty close to "my" ideal as the corrected geometry #'s match my current daily rig.

good rides
re: Saddle Fore-Aft Positioning - Not KOPSDINOSAUR
Jun 2, 2001 2:35 PM
Article by Keith Bontrager regarding the myth of KOPS.
Ignore leg length?Kerry Irons
Jun 2, 2001 5:39 PM
You would think that saddle position relative to BB would be all about leg length, particularly the length of the femur (upper leg). Long femur would suggest saddle farther back, etc. It's not the least bit clear to me why torso length would figure in. That theory suggests that the handlebar position is fixed relative to the BB, and that you move the saddle back and forth based on torso/arm length. And how do you determine when the torso is "balanced over the pedals"? Unless there's more here than you have explained, it seems pretty weak IMO.