|Most overated Bike||xxx|
May 24, 2001 9:29 PM
|In no particular order: GT, Litespeed or Colnago?|
May 24, 2001 9:37 PM
|I didn't realize GT was rated highly...|
|I was thinking the same thing||mike mcmahon|
May 24, 2001 9:41 PM
|I've never heard of anyone mention GT when discussing the upper echelon of road bikes. I haven't spent enough time on a Litespeed or Colnago to say which (if either) is overrated. Which bike is the most overpriced might be a better question.|
|Is that a different question at all? (nm)||muncher|
May 25, 2001 9:35 AM
|Last time I checked||mike mcmahon|
May 25, 2001 2:37 PM
|"overrated" and "overpriced" didn't mean the same thing. Certainly, a bike (or anything else) can be overrated and/or overpriced. However, a bike can be overrated and still be relatively inexpensive. The way I see it "rating" has to do with quality, while "price" has to do only with, well, price. Let's say someone produces a frame that everyone agrees is the best-riding bike in the world, but the frame alone is $15,000. If everyone agrees it's the best-riding frame in the world, you probably won't find anyone who will say it's overrated. On the other hand, finding someone to say it's overpriced probably wouldn't take long.|
|re: Most overated Bike||xxx|
May 24, 2001 9:55 PM
|Sorry, it's late and these things just come to mind. If I see one more overpriced, wax poetic, Ernesto had nothing do to with it, but you Americans don't know it, we are now the Schwinn of Italy (sorry, Bianchi) - Colnago on the picture gallery I'm gonna puke.
Litespeed is an obvious choice.
GT I just kinda pulled out of the air. Other third choice?
|Names that have been thrown around||mike mcmahon|
May 24, 2001 10:08 PM
|here and other places as being overrated:
Seven; Independent Fabrication; Merlin (even pre-Litespeed); Kestrel.
Frames I don't recall ever having heard or read anyone bad-mouth:
Serotta; Tomassini; Sachs; Moon; Della Santa; Steelman.
This is not my list of underrated or overrated bikes; it's just on off the top of my head list of complaints or praise I've heard or read: maybe a starting place for further discussion.
May 24, 2001 10:21 PM
|and why not serrotta?|
|I'm not sure I can answer that question||mike mcmahon|
May 24, 2001 10:30 PM
|However, there seems to be a contingent of people out there who think that Seven riders are guys with big guts and even bigger wallets who are out for snob appeal. Personally, I only know one guy with a Seven and he's a very strong 50-plus rider who couldn't be happier with his bike.
I think Serotta has become almost legendary among framebuilders and finding anyone to criticize Ben's work is difficult. Despite having experience builders, Seven hasn't been around as a company long enough to have developed the reputation that Serotta has built over decades. At least this is what I have gleaned through discussions and reading about bikes.
|Well said Mike||bike_junkie|
May 25, 2001 12:28 AM
|Ryan may not realize that Serotta has been building bikes for decades, and Seven is a fairly new company with six welders, mostly hired out of art school.
Serotta has history, and Serotta frames have been ridden by some of the world's best riders in the Olympics, or in major Euro Tours under the 7-11 team, or the Coors Light squad.
Ben isn't big on hype, and his bikes aren't cheap. But he really loves making wonderful frames, and he takes care of his customers.
|How's About This...||grz mnky|
May 25, 2001 7:40 PM
|The Seven tube sets aren't tapered and worked the way the Serotta's are?
Not too impressed with the Seven seatpost clamping mechanism that breaks, or the "coat hanger" stiff quilled ti stem they put out.
May 24, 2001 10:24 PM
|I haven't had a chance to test ride it, but from the recent review of this bike in Procycling I must say this bike is way over-rated on this and other US-based boards. Definitely over-priced. Essentially the review said that the IF bike they tested seem to come from the distant past--in terms of handling, geometry, and use of frame material. OK for a touring bike, but definitely not a racing steed.
I have had a chance to see some Ti and steel framesets of IF at my LBS. Cosmetically, looks good but I guess it sucks in the handling dept.
May 25, 2001 12:09 AM
|If you are going to badmouth a company you need to have some facts to back your slam. An artical in one magazine isn't enough. Do you have any experience with IF? No? Your opinion carries no weight.|
May 25, 2001 9:17 AM
|ProCycling's bike reviews (one per month) are done by Robert Millar, former professional in the late 80's thru the 90's. He raced for TVM among others and was a great climber. Being a former pro, I've noticed that his reviews tend to have a racing slant to them. HOWEVER, he definitely knows what he is talking about and seems free of many of the prejudices that many reviewers are known for.
In a recent issue, he extolled the virtues of the new Cannondale frames (CAAD6?) that the Saeco team is riding. In this month's issue, he practically gushes about the Lightspeed Vortex so I don't think he's got a problem w/ American bikes.
Have I personally ridden an IF frame? No, and I admit they are pretty. In the review what WAS stated was that if you are looking for a race/performance bike, the IF that THEY tested was not your best bet for the money. The steering was sluggish among other things. Not a bad bike for touring/general riding, just not a racer. I'm sure you can get an IF with any geometry you want...
Put it this way, this is probably one of the ONLY magazine reviewers that I will listen to when it comes time to throw my $$ down on a new bike..
|Actually, it was pretty lame||Lame Post Police|
May 25, 2001 10:54 AM
|The opinion of one man is just that, and the original poster didn't |
even base his opinion on real life experience, just what he read by one person.
I wonder if different racers have different preferences in bikes.
Do you think that ever happens? Of course it does.
So now the original poster bases his opinion on something he only read,
written by one person? To me that equates to saying:
"I don't think vanilla ice cream is very good because i read
a review by Julia Childs (world famous chef since the 50's) and
she didn't care for it. Therefore it mustn't be good.
Lets all be a little smarter and voice opinions about what we know,
not what one person writes.
That said, I rode an IF all last summer while my buddy was in Europe.
I thought it was one of the sweetest handeling bikes I've ever ridden.
I even came close to selling my Serrota, but couldn't justify it monetarily.
|What's your frame of reference??||DG|
May 25, 2001 1:02 PM
|I trust Millar's assessment because of his extensive experience on dozens of bikes that he has actually ridden for a few hours under testing conditions. Most folks on this forum have very limited experience with bikes and their frame of reference is limited too. How do you evaluate a bike when you haven't ridden very many bikes to compare with in the first place??
My experience with bikes that I HAVE ridden and has been consistent with the reviews I have read in Procycling or Cycle sport. I do trust their judgement. Sorry, I don't trust you or your limited experience on a friend's bike. How difficult is it for me to claim that I have ridden my friend's IF and thought it sucked? Not very. But I didn't resort to lies. Nor am I implying to are...
|Not looking for your trust and not reviewing||Lame Post Police|
May 25, 2001 3:49 PM
|so there's nothing that you need to trust with me. |
Just pointing out that someone who volunteers an opinion
without personal experience is sorta lame.
Q: What's the most over rated travel spot?
Q: Ever been there?
A: Nope but I read a review by a travel book that I trust so...
Q: What's the most over rated Movie?
A: Movie x
Q: What didn't you like about it?
A: Oh, I never saw it, but I read a not so good review so...
Q: What's the most over rated car?
A: Shelby Cobra 427
Q: What didn't you like about it?
A: Oh, I never had any chance to drive it, but in Car & Driver...
Q: What's the most best tasting ice cream
A: Ben And J's Strawberry
Q: What did you like about it?
A: Oh, I've never tried it but the trusted reviewer in Ice Cream Times said...
So you see once we get back to the topic at hand, about the fact that it was sort of a lame post, I think its pretty clear.
Whether you trust a reviewer or not is a totally different topic.
And yes, I have absolutely no reason to lie when I say i loved my 2 months on that sweet handeling IF so thank you for not asserting that I did. Indeed, why would I.
Have a good weekend. I'll allow you the last word on this topic
if you feel so inclined
This will be my last post on the topic because its become, well...LAME.
|gonna take heat for this....||peloton|
May 24, 2001 10:35 PM
|Bianchi! Just because a bike is celeste doesn't make it great.
In honesty, I do like Bianchis. They are the Trek of Italy though. Great tradition, and the celeste is classic.
|I've also heard some negative stuff on Bianchi||mike mcmahon|
May 24, 2001 10:42 PM
|and from people who would seem to be in the know: Bianchi dealers. I've read posts from more than one LBS owner/manager who couldn't in good faith recommend Bianchis to customers despite being a dealer. Or, I should say, couldn't recommend some particular models.|
|I've also heard some negative stuff on Bianchi||xxx|
May 25, 2001 8:48 AM
|You are much easier to read as you've kept to the point and with no mr winky after evry other sentence.|
|I appreciate the feedback,||mike mcmahon|
May 25, 2001 8:56 AM
|but give it a rest now, O.K.? Thanks|
|re: Most overated Bike||Mystery bike|
May 24, 2001 10:44 PM
|I'm not going to flame any of the bikes mentioned above, but it is a fact that many Colnago frames are outsourced to other companies so not only are they not made by Mr. Colnago, they are not even made by one of his employees. None of this really matters as long as you are riding a frame that is custom made by an experienced builder. If you are riding a custom Colnago, Litespeed or GT you're probably doing ok.|
|Most over rated - Colnago. Unsung hero Tommasini.it||Allen|
May 24, 2001 10:46 PM
|The seat tube on a Colnago is so steep that I cannot even get it to fit. When you purchase a Colnago you are buying a frame as well as a portion of a huge marketing and advertising budget. Also - the quality of their chrome is suspect. Just ask around.
If it was not for Colorado Cyclist, very few people would have even heard of Tommasini. Don't let the cheap price tag fool you, they are a great off-the-rack frame handbuilt under Tommasini's own roof in a small shop in Italy, and in very small quantities. Canadians and others with no importer can order direct from Italy at an amazing price.
May 24, 2001 11:56 PM
|why get a C-40 for over $3000.00 when you can get a Calfee luna for $1200.00 or a Tetra for $1900.00
And it US made and hs 10 year warrenty
whats the Warrenty on the C-40 anyone know??
|Colonago by far||alansutton|
May 25, 2001 12:26 AM
|has the worst build quality of any frame I've ever built. It takes AT LEAST 3 times longer to properly prep a Colonago frame. I can't count how many times I've seen BB threads so think with paint and shells so ovalized that the facing tools can't bite good threads. I don't even want to talk about the head tube! On the other hand, I've never seen one broken. That is, with the exception of the occasional idiot who drives his SUV into the garage with a new C-40 on the roof. Saw that last week and nobody gave him any sympathy, not even other customers. Last month some guy did that with a Seven and it ripped a hole in the roof of his BMW but the frame was sill straight.|
May 25, 2001 12:27 AM
|You have hit upon the most ingenious inflammatory post I've ever seen in my several years on these cycling web boards!! This post is absolutely brilliant. Unlike the Shimano vs Campy board battles, this one allows each and every person to insult (and be insulted by) a large population of other cyclists by slagging off someone else's favorite bike. Instead of a focused scirmish, this thread can be many battles raging simultaneously with huge losses on both sides. Any victories will probably be Phyrric. Again, congratulations.
That said, I think almost all titanium bikes are way overpriced (even though I've never ridden one), the price for a Colnago is mostly for the paint job and the name (even though I've never ridden one of these either), and Cannondales are actually under-rated (I have owned one of these.)
Now, to open myself to slagging, here are my bikes so that someone else can target my favorite rides:
Serotta Atlanta (excellent bike)
Pinarello Gavia (my favorite)
Hewitt 853 (Brit bike--another excellent bike, custom, very reasonable price.)
|Yup! Reverse Popularity Contest!||grz mnky|
May 25, 2001 7:55 PM
|I guess if you're into the image-thing you'd know what new and expensive bikes people are likely to accept or grouse about at the cafe. Might as well ask what is the best bike or the best/worst bike value. Then there's the whole mind bending aspect: great bike/crappy rider; and crappy bike/great rider.
Bottom line: All that matters is that you like the one you're on or are lusting over a new ride. Kind of like relationships.
Just remember at least with a bike you're not usually dealing with something/one that someone else is tired of dealing with.
|Overrated by opinion||James|
May 25, 2001 12:54 AM
|I love my Kestrel!|
|what someone else has that you can't afford||freespirit|
May 25, 2001 7:21 AM
|This petty envy of more expensive bikes is pitiful. If you can't afford one, or don't want to spend the money on one, don't knock others for buying an expensive bike (which is certainly implied in your question). They might have their reasons that could be completely foreign to you.
Equally, one could ask, What's the most overrated car? house? stereo? book? computer?
B.S., I say. This is not productive.
|what someone else has that you can't afford||David Jones|
May 28, 2001 12:59 AM
|I make enough to money as an engineer to buy any bike mentioned here. But man, would I feel like a weenie if I couldn't ride at at least 23mph average over my 50 mile normal ride!|
|I appreciate my Ovalmaster.||V. DeB|
May 31, 2001 8:01 AM
|DJ, I have to agree with Freespirit. I have contemplated this question for a long time. It makes me sick that someone would denigrate any one esle for the kind of car, watch, or bike they own. Whether we are discussing a clunker of a car or a Rolls. I've ridden Colnago bikes now for 15 years. I appreciate the quality and the care that go into each of their bikes. I consider myself lucky to own such a bike. In all cases I lucked into great deals. Gee let's see. . . a Colnago for "X" amount, or factory made brand "X" for the same amount. Does this make me a "weenie?" I think not. Its this kind of negitive attitude that lends cycling and cyclists a black-eye. Kudos to those that ride Colnago and the same for those that are still riding their nondescript rusted bucket of bolts. Both hold the same value to each individual. Just my opinion. PS I can hold my own concerning average speed. Vince|
|re: Most overated Bike||mesa|
May 25, 2001 7:22 AM
|GT - for sure, at least with Mountain Bikes
Serotta - I'm not sure I could call them overrated, but they do have funky dropouts that sure seem like a LOT of work for no purpose, if your going to make a socket style dropout, do it like MOOTS. And whats with that L'alpe Duez (sp?) cut me a break...
Litespeed - well... enuff said
|Why is Litespeed a given? I've read every post about Litespeed||bill|
May 25, 2001 7:41 AM
|and Litespeed Merlins and whatever, and, other than some technical criticism of the weld consistency (which appears to be largely aesthetic), I've never gleaned a solid criticism. They may be a little pricey for production bikes, but are they bad bikes? Do you just mean that, for the same or less money, you can get something prettier? |
I own a Litespeed that I bought when I knew nothing, and I really mean nothing, about road bikes (there's a whole story that goes with this; remind me to tell it when y'all have some time), so that, even though I own one, I really don't have much investment in the decision. But I have never heard a cogent criticism of the bike as a bike.
|Why is Litespeed a given? I've read every post about Litespeed||xxx|
May 25, 2001 8:31 AM
|Bill, If you bought knowing nothing, I'll let you off the hook. But they are a hugely overrated frame. It seems the more expensive the frame, the cheesier it is. Very inconsistent quality standards. I've seen L-speed bikes on shop floors that I couldn't believe were 'released' from the factory. If you like yours, cool, ride away.....but there most certainly are better.|
|Why is Litespeed a given? I've read every post about Litespeed||Roger from Toronto|
May 25, 2001 9:22 PM
|Lightspeed is overrated because of their own hype. Instead of working within the strengths and limitations of Ti they turn it into Marketing Hype. It is an expensive material with excellent fatigue performance. It's strength to weight ratio is better than steel and less than Al or Carbon Composite. The fatigue performance allows for a comfortable compliant riding frame. Litespeed push the envelope with 6 4 alloy and Ti parts that don't make sense. This caters to the Ti addicts but loses credibility with anyone who knows something about frames and materials. They also trash their competition by eluding to shoddy practices like Russian Ti. The best Ti frame is Merlin because of their commitment to applying the technology sensibly and their quality of workmanship. Serotta's are nicely made and look great but the Colorado concept tubing is more Marketing than engineering|
|Moots, all that money for straight gauge Ti, why?||J.S.|
May 25, 2001 9:34 AM
|At least litespeed is using new technology. Who cares, aluminum rules anyways.|
|there is no perfect bike for everyone||ishmael|
May 25, 2001 9:41 AM
|i can understand that if a bike is poorly made(bad welds, not aligned, bad paint) then it deserves ridicule, but how can you put down a bike for its geometry and handling, what might be too sluggish to someone is perfect for someone else..and just because joe racer rides it or a magazine recommends it doesnt mean anything either because often joe racer races what they give him and the bike reviewer may not like what you like...the fact that its made by a careing nurtureing "artisan" also doesnt mean anything because alot of them do crappy work and most people wouldnt even know what crappy work is..also sheldon brown says that treks old mechanical brazing machines did a better job than alot of the fancy big italian names...
so i think its hard to judge any frame other than the one you are on, but, perks such as a good warranty and a helpfull company are comparable..
May 25, 2001 6:38 PM
|Rode a Classic. The hype on these bikes is way overblown. It is supposed to emulate an Italin road racing bike but it didn't come close to mine. It pitched forward dangerously when going over minor dips in the road and the fork was set up so that my shoes rubbed against the front wheel when making a turn with the pedals at the 3:00 position. Yes it rode comfortably, but for the price, it's just not worth the crash potential. I am also dismayed that this company does not include a fork with it's bikes.|
|Sounds Like it Didn't Fit You||grz mnky|
May 25, 2001 8:09 PM
|To pitch dangersouly forward the design would have to be a farily significant departure from the norm, which it is not. If it didn't fit you, then yeah, the ride can be a little sketchy.
Toe overlap is no biggie and it's pretty common in the middle size range of a lot of performance oriented frames. I encouonter it other frames as well: Trek, C'dale, Calfee, Kestrel, Serotta, Seven, Klein, etc.
"Dismayed" that they don't include a fork? It simply gives you the opportunity to buy the fork you really want, not some POS that they got from another vendor, that you're going to yank off anyhow. I'd be happy.
|Sounds Like it Didn't Fit You||xxxx|
May 27, 2001 11:08 PM
|Actually the standover height of the frame was fine and the dealer assured me that the bike was my proper size. I wound up with a Colnago (in the same size) that came with a top quality carbon fiber fork, has no toe overlap and rides wonderfully for much less $$$. Needless to say I am a happy bike rider. :)|
|Whew... Thank God nobody slagged Kestrel (nm)||seth1|
May 25, 2001 7:55 PM
May 25, 2001 8:19 PM
|re: Most overated Bike||converted fan|
May 26, 2001 6:28 AM
|OK, I'll take the troll bait. I used to think that Litespeed's were ridden by novices who had too much money and no common sense to choose a quality racing bike. Then I bought a used Classic for a steal, built it up with new campy components, and changed my mind immediately. I've owned 5 "high end" bikes in the past, both aluminum and steel and none of them compared to the ride quality and feel of my Litespeed. It really boils down to your own experiences, and it's foolish judge the merits or shortcomings of another ride without actually testing it for yourself. If you ever get a chance, try to ride a friend's Litespeed, it really is a nice ride.|
|re: Most overated Bike||converted fan|
May 26, 2001 6:28 AM
|re: Most overated Bike - Lightspeed vs. Colnago||bslang|
May 28, 2001 9:12 PM
|For many years, I'd head into the bicycle store and ogle Lightspeed bikes. Arching seatstays worthy of da Vinci. The beautiful lustre of the titanium. The visual "rightness" of the geometry. The sense of lightness when I'd lift one off the rack. Then, I actually started some serious bicycle shopping, and coerced every bicycle dealer I could find into letting me try the bikes that were built up in my size. One of these was a slightly used Ultimate that a well-heeled customer had returned to the store because it was "too much bike" for him. I took it out for about a half hour. Snooze Central! A two-wheeled Lexus. I ended up buying a Colnago...and I haven't regretted it for a single instant. It charges my emotional batteries like nothing else. It rides with a perfect combination of grace and grit. It makes me fearless. It makes me the king of the world. Strange thing, though. Whenever I see a Lightspeed on the road or in a shop, I have to stop and stare. Such elegance. Such beauty.|| |