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Need a good shop near LA, South Bay area(37 posts)

Need a good shop near LA, South Bay areawestcoaster
May 10, 2001 12:29 AM
I am looking for a good shop in the Los Angeles/ South bay area. I am willing to travel to a GOOD shop. I went to a shop here that claims to be the area's largest but to me they didn't seem like the area's best?
re: Need a good shop near LA, South Bay areamike mcmahon
May 10, 2001 6:52 AM
Here are some good shops in the south bay/l.a. area (or at least they used to be good):

1. Helen's Cycles-Marina del Rey-Helen's is a large, chain store. The MdR store specializes in road bikes. Its manager, Scott, is very knowledgeable and helpful, as are the salespeople.
2. Triathlete Zombies-Manhattan Beach and Santa Monica-Despite the name, it's not just a tri shop. TZ carries a lot of good gear at good prices and its owner, Robert, is a nice guy who works with customers.
3. Circle Cycle-Torrance-I have no personal experiernce with CC but I do know that many south bay riders swear by this shop, so it's worth a look.
4. King's Bikes-San Pedro-I have little personal experience with this shop but have been in a few times. It specializes in Colnagos. I have a friend who bought a Colnago there and loves the place.
5. Bicycle John's-Burbank-A great shop with a great owner, specializing in high-end road bikes: Pinarello, Litespeed, Principia, Kestrel, Torelli, etc. Great mechanics and hard-working, honest guys.

For reasons I won't go into here, I would strongly suggest avoiding I. Martin Imports, which is one of the largest stores in so. Cal. I had a very bad experience with them and haven't returned since. Good luck.
re: Need a good shop near LA, South Bay areabestT
May 10, 2001 10:13 AM
I agree with all Mike's comments. If you are looking for a good mechanic, my favorites are Edgar at Helen's in Manhattan Beach, Manuel at Circle Cycle, and Bill Ron at Bill Ron's Bicycles in Redondo Beach (kind of a hole in the wall, but Bill is an excellent mechanic and wheel builder, and has alot of track stuff).
Agree with the above, and . . .LanterneRouge
May 10, 2001 11:04 AM
Depending upon what you are looking for, here are my recommendations:

1. Service -- Edgar at the Manhattan Beach Helen's. Excellent and fast.

2. Bikes and Components -- For big ticket items, I'd make the trip up to Helen's in Santa Monica. They've got a huge selection, the salespeople are all very knowledgeable, and they'll bargain with you. For basics closer to home, I like Circle Cycle 'cause they're cheaper than Helen's.

3. Clothing -- Circle Cycle Torrance. Huge selection of pro kits, as well as PI basics.

I avoid Supergo in Santa Monica unless I'm bargain hunting.
Hey LR,mike mcmahon
May 10, 2001 12:44 PM
your post would appear to indicate that you live in the Torrance area. Have you ever been out for the Doughnut Ride?
Hey LR,bestT
May 10, 2001 1:50 PM
Hey Mike
I know you wrote this to L.R., but I thought I'd respond anyway. I'm the Tom that thought you were the track racing Mike McMahon. I live in PV, and do the donut ride every Sat. I was on the first donut ride in 1983-84, and have been doing it ever since.
Hey LR,mike mcmahon
May 10, 2001 1:59 PM
I probably saw you out there then. At the time, I was on a red Torelli and usually in a La Grange jersey. I haven't done it since about '98, but I was a regular (almost every Saturday) from September 1996 to mid-98. Good ride, good people, good scenery, nasty cops.
Hey LR,bestT
May 10, 2001 5:35 PM
the police told us last week they would be out in force this weekend, it seems to be a semi-annual thing. i was on the ride when they boxed the whole group in with about 5-6 police cars and wrote >60 tickets. i was lucky and escaped in the initial confusion.
Funnymike mcmahon
May 10, 2001 5:46 PM
I was on the ride once when the cops decided to write someone up for riding outside the bike lane. Probably half of the 80 or so people on the ride were outside the bike lane, so the cop just singled out one rider and pulled him over. He asked the cop why she picked him; she just pointed to his brand-new bright-ass yellow Time shoes and said they stuck out like a sore thumb. Sometimes those boring black Sidis really pay off. The PV cops also like to enforce the full stop at a stop sign rule. San Pedro's a different story. It's a free-for-all once you get there. I guess the cops in Pedro have bigger fish to fry.
re: Need a good shop near LA, South Bay areaWestcoaster
May 10, 2001 1:01 PM
Thanks all!!! The first shop I went to in town was actually Helen's I am sorry to say but those guys were not all that cool. I had a chance to go to Triathlete Zombies Manhatten beach (used to be Ted Ernst bicycles) I was really impressed the mechanics that I meet Really know alot. One of the guys there Tim was really cool and seemed to REALLY know his stuff. These guys really know there Campy stuff and had a bunch of really cool old track bikes hanging around. They even had a track tandem ( which I had never seen) I am going to go and check out all the other shops that you guys listed. even the guys at Tri Zombies said Kings and bicycle John's were a great shops. THANKS AGAIN AND SEE YOU ALL ON THE ROAD! Plus I have always wanted a Calfee and Tri zombies is a dealer!
An apology to the boardmike mcmahon
May 10, 2001 7:12 AM
Steve, or at least someone using Steve's e-mail, sent me two e-mails last night: nothing of substance just messages stating that gimmeaminute had posted new messages on the board. Although, as a lawyer, I'm not sure it's worthy of litigation or even a complaint to Jacobs, I do agree that most employers disapprove of employees using their work e-mail to register at a site where they make such nasty comments about others. I hope Steve (or whoever is using his e-mail) will take this as an opportunity to tone down his posts.

More to the point, I'd like apologize to everyone on the board for taking Steve/gimmeaminute's bait last night and continuing to respond to his obvious trolls. As I told him last night, I was particularly galled by the fact that he (who knows absolutely nothing about me) would refer to me as a homophobe. I consider myself to be level-headed and rational and normally don't become involved in such polemics. I find my behavior particularly embarrassing in light of Goatroper's passing, which has been documented here and at VN. Please accept my apology and my pledge to avoid confrontations of the type I experienced last night.

Mike
Thanks -nmmike mcmahon
May 10, 2001 8:55 AM
nm
Don't tell me how to think, what to say, ...Breck
May 10, 2001 11:10 AM
... how to act.
I spent what seems to be my whole life interfacing between "warring sects" That is co-ordination between those discreet disciplines that by nature could not agree to disagree but none the less needed to get the job at hand done, accomplished, finished, complete on time and on schedule..assigned trouble shooting stint on South Texas Nuclear Power Project Bay City, Texas .. a six billion dollar project that was the Activity Package Coordinator (work windows) between engineering and construction and the only ONE on the project that had the title. And had the respect of all i worked with as my credo was to remain neutral as to personalities and listen to the message & sort out the kinks as always exists.

So with that in mind as a small piece of my experience and observational skills may i make the following personal observation .... This is pure crappola giving out name address and incidentals at work ...sow your own ethics? ...and saying in effect "i have put this guy on trial and he is guilty, so assist me in punishing him/her" and hay we can gett em at work(!). Kinda bike-board McCarthyism don't you think. It stinks and smells of the worst order. Got a problem?? contact the Webmaster & air your complaint there. If it is legitament his/her/it's server can be locked out ...if this is "our" intent.

As for me, i see none of what you see ... and incidentally don't know Steve personally and would only say he has a mind and peculiar style of his own and admits to over-stepping "it" a time or two or more as we all have done a time or three or four.

It is not WHAT people say that gives them away but HOW they say it that is the clue. Let me listen to a person talk and the speech pattern, voice inflection, other clues, and can tell you more than a little about the person and his/ her values, etc. It does not really matter WHAT they say to me as long as it is their view point. Message Boards are exceedingly difficult to get the message right and not wrong to the one's see it hat way. just who is and who isn't following the PACT to the chapter and verse. Get it? Got it.

In my whole 58 years of attending over 15 different schools (yeah we moved around a lot) & meeting a heck of a lot of diff types of people & mind sets and having more jobs than you could shake a stick at including but not limited to both "high" Senior Mathematician title and "low" pulling the empties off the Grappette truck for $0.50 / hr. title & enjoyed them equally both because of the people i met ....have truly not liked maybe three individuals if you add 'em all up & rack 'em & stack 'em any which way you like. And this includes reading all the board posts for six months or so. My colorless back ground is assorted majors including Theoretical Physics, EE, Architecture, with minors in Math, Literature, and History so "it do" colour my thoughts and opinions and typically see things a little diff than the maybe ave. biker on the board. Throw out the top and bottom 10% and see where the true "middle" lie/lay. This would get rid of me, gimmeaminute, and more than a few others and leave the board with little or know-conrtroverse, mebee like real life or not, huh? Is this the Goal, then tell me now.

And so the long way about would ask you/we/all would reconsider our tactics to rid and exorcise the board of the explicit Demon/s we may so choose to point out. This is my take mind you and could be wrong as have not met or ridden , run, etc. with any of the board members on an eye to eye see and hear how-they-say-what-they-say. I vote to stop all this/these/that personal-get-at-you nonsense/s. I will not participate on this board if it continues to go in this vein & who cares right ... have the board to yourself/ selves if you like. Our Earth will still turn on those Big Ball Bearings ...
>
"The sun came up upon the
left ,
Out of the sea came he!
And he shone bright, and on the
right
Went down into the sea"
-The Rime
Thanks for expresing what more of us feel! nmLen J
May 10, 2001 11:14 AM
Don't tell me, & the end my friend (Doors)Breck
May 10, 2001 11:14 AM
....

And so the long way about would ask you/we/all would reconsider our tactics to rid and exorcise the board of the explicit Demon/s we may so choose to point out. This is my take mind you and could be wrong as have not met or ridden , run, etc. with any of the board members on an eye to eye see and hear how-they-say-what-they-say. I vote to stop all this/these/that personal-get-at-you nonsense/s. I will not participate on this board if it continues to go in this vein & who cares right ... have the board to yourself/ selves if you like. Our Earth will still turn on those Big Ball Bearings ...
>
"The sun came up upon the
left ,
Out of the sea came he!
And he shone bright, and on the
right
Went down into the sea"
-The Rime of the Ancient Mariner
-- Samuel Taylor Coledridge

& so shall it always (for us at any rate) be.

cheers
BAL, Shooting Star Ranch, S.D. Co.
bgcc
Nice workmike mcmahon
May 10, 2001 11:30 AM
I haven't seen Coleridge quoted around here in quite some time (if ever). It must be the fine education you received in Huntington Beach. ;-) I've been trying to figure out a way to work a lyric from a Tom Waits song into one of my posts. However, as the bulk of Waits' songs deal with subjects like alcohol, cigarettes, hookers, midgets, and angry suburbanites who douse their homes with gasoline and watch them burn down, I haven't really found a good place to use a Tom Waits quote on a cycling board. I'm still working on it. Enjoy life in Julian!
How Aboutgrz mnky
May 10, 2001 11:42 AM
"Gotta get behind the mule in the morning and plow"

There has to be a way with linking that line in between over indulging on a night before a tough group ride.

I also like the line in Hold On -

"She left Monte Rio just like a bullet leaves a gun."

Very appropriate for anyone who's done the Terrible Two. You pass through Monte Rio on the final leg back to Sonoma after some heinous climbing and descending (Geysers, Calistoga, Skaggs Springs, and the beloved Fort Ross)and you just want to get home so you hook a tandem or anything faster than you and just try to hold on.
dutch pink and italian blueHaiku d'état
May 10, 2001 12:00 PM
...i'd guess most any lyrics from frank's wild years would be appropriate fodder for the board.

got to burn down the caboose
get'em all jacked up on whiskey
then we'll turn the mad dog loose
hang on st. christopher on the passenger side
open it up tonight the devil can ride
You can always count on Grzmike mcmahon
May 10, 2001 12:01 PM
to dig up a gem. The funny thing is that every now and then I ride my bike on San Fernando Road and can't help but think of "Frank's Wild Years" (I paraphrase):

"Frank hung his wild years on a spike he drove through his wife's forehead. He sold used office furniture at a place out on San Fernando Road. His wife was a spent piece of used jet-trash who made good bloody marys and kept her mouth shut most of the time. She had a chihuhua that was totally blind and had some kind of skin disease. Frank settled down out in the Valley, got himself a little place with 10% down and a 30-year fixed mortgage. Everything was great. Then one day, Frank when to the gas station and picked up a six-pack of beer and a gallon of gas in a can. He went home, doused the entire place in gasoline, and lit it on fire. He sat across the street in his car laughing, watching it burn: all chimney red and halloween orange. Then Frank got on the Hollywood Freeway and headed north. Never could stand that dog."

Apologies for any and all misquotations. And greetings and salutations to Frank and his wife Eileen in Petaluma.
Tom WaitsBreck
May 10, 2001 1:39 PM
Any essential albums now on CD?

I give 'em a listen & thx.

cheers
Tom Waitsmike mcmahon
May 10, 2001 1:55 PM
Here's a starting place that doensn't include his most recent works:

http://persephone.cps.unizar.es/Kaos/Waits/home.html

IMHO, you can't go wrong with any of the records on this list. However, Swordfishtrombones is one of my personal favorites. You also can't go wrong with Small Change, Heart Attack & Vine, or Rain Dogs. There are plenty of other sites devoted to his music, including tomwaits.com. He's one of those guys you'll either love or hate. I have a feeling you'll love him. It's nice to know we've got other Waits fans on the board.
Tom Waits for No OneRt. 128
May 10, 2001 2:40 PM
Hiss! nmmike mcmahon
May 10, 2001 3:02 PM
nm
Tom Waits over Here.Breck
May 11, 2001 8:31 AM
William Tell you'all in advance, cannot possibly respond to all the trickle-in diggs of the South Forty but did dig out some dope on Tom Waits ...

"Tom Waits is probably the most beatnik-influenced figure in rock & roll*. His best work is a cross between one of Jack Kerouac's amphetamine verbal rambles and a psychotic short-order chef's midnight diatribe. This obscures, unfortunately, his talent as a composer (Small Change & Closing Time each contain several winning songs), and his gravel-voiced poetic renditions become tedious for all but the cultist. Waits is a punk of the old school, hard-bitten and determinedly scrounging, worth watching, if not always able to transcend his own excessive wordiness. Blue Valentine, a 1978 album that contains a remarkable version of West Side Story's "Somewhere" and a lot of actual music instead of polysyllabic monotone mumble, is actually the best effort since the debut"
-Dave Marsh, editor
-Rolling Stone Record Guide
-Rolling Stone Press, 1979
(out of print)

*rock & roll ...
Do any of you know the exact connotation and definition of this phrase? Hank Ballard's "Work with Me Annie" original title was "Roll with Me Annie" and should give you the clue. Later Laverne Baker covered with "Dance with Me Henry". BTW, Ballard and the MidNighters did the original "Twist" & "Finger popping Time", but Dick Clark took Chubby Checkers & covered "Twist", etc. rest is history. Sometime listen to T. Bone Walker's guitar riffs and then Chuck Berry. My uncle Bub used to take me down to Deep Elm in Dallas, late 40's and listen to the music of T. Bone & others. I luv music, any type any sort.

Check out:
Hank Ballard "20 Hits (Federal/King)on Gusto label.
T. Bone Walker "The Complete Imperial Recordings 1950-54", EMI, 1991.
& mee will check out Tom Waits & if cn find any 45's will put 'em on one of the Wurlitzer Juke Box's (my coin op hobby 'long with pin balls(!).

cheers
Dave Marsh: Hah! nmmike mcmahon
May 11, 2001 10:16 AM
nm
Mule VariationsGRZ MNKY
May 10, 2001 4:08 PM
Can't seem to get enough of it currently. Had to give it a listen in the car at lunch. It is impossible for me to listen to Hold On and not think of the Terrible Two, but then I already said that, must be burned into my psyche.

There is even a way hip cover out of Get Behind the Mule.

The guy is a genius and exposes the white of the bone.
Mule Variationsmike mcmahon
May 10, 2001 5:23 PM
Yep, that's another good one. A Waits song that gets me all misty-eyed every time I hear it is "A Soldier's Things." It reminds me of my grandfather. I also like the following line from another song (Bad Liver and Broken Heart): "I've got a bad liver . . . and a broken heart . . . I've cried me a river since you tore me apart . . . I don't have a drinking problem, 'cept when I can't get a drink . . . " Another favorite is where he sings "I'm getting harder than Chinese algebra" in "Pasties and a G-String." The guys sure has a way with words.
Don't tell me how to think, what to say, ...The Jerk
May 10, 2001 12:42 PM
"have truly not liked maybe three individuals"
If I informed you that you are a long-winded and that nobody is interested in reading your educational resume, would I make the list?
personal Vs job relatedBreck
May 10, 2001 1:31 PM
Gave the re-soom-ee as was thinking job related and probs between peoples as it relate to the job at hand, i.e. posting and getting some thought, press, respect on the Board.

Believe the board is more of a job-related format as we do not know one another and some do post from work. Words do intrigue me though such as the relative diffs between advice; advise; inform. Interesting what words one uses. But so again do some un-solved problems of realistic quantum mechanics which require rigorous math solutions to mechanical problems unlike bike-board word solutions to mechanical problems. Am not always good at word solutions and tend to be convex/ concave; rarely planer in my approach to Logic. Sorree.

I don't think you would make the list. As to long winded my bud Road Dog has made the same comment but on the road bike as got used to chatting while running but bikers haven't aquired the habit. But he never comments on the trail as "long winded" is considered to be an asset in the high mountains. Jest a Theory of course :)

Jerk? ...you don't seem so much so. What does the word mean to you. Is there a bias there?
cheers
OK Guyz :)Breck
May 11, 2001 6:17 AM
I get the massage.

RE: wines
suggest Fitzgerald's rendering of Khayyam's Rubaiyat. The older printing the better. Mine's L. C. Page, 1898 w/12 drawings in colour.

Education:
no degrees, self educated.
current read, "Moby Dick"
current project, bike novel "Olympia 2025"

Songs:
my early 3AM current pick is:
Miles Davis, "Sketches of Spain"
then the Ranch chores.

Filling up...
Try the Texaco Company
Port Arthur, Texas
home offices New York, new York
main oil fields Louisiana.
the first station to have pumps in all 48 states.
or SOCONY ... Standard Oil Company of New York.
butt good luck finding any visible cylinder pumps.
butt if you do try the blue tint as these had the premium.

cheers MJ
Priceless!grz mnky
May 10, 2001 12:04 PM
Good work MJ!

The freedom of speach thing goes pretty far and I support it, but it doesn't give some one the right to shout "Fire" in a crowded theater. If someone wants to troll and post inflamtory, offensive, and personal attacks against a minority they should be held accountable. Or else go over to bigot.com for some fun.

Yup, no doubt about it, gonna make sure that Jacobs gets a chance to check the log files on Mr. Hartwell's computer and enroll him in some diversity training. They may even have a policy about using company resources and spreading hate on their nickel.

It's about bikes, road bikes to be specific.
Priceless & maybe cost you too.Breck
May 10, 2001 7:57 PM
I do recall you making a statement "rotsa ruck" or close to it in which a poster accused you of some sort of bias, mebee even using the word "bigot". I did not believe it and so stated, i.e., sided with you. And still do.

Before you and others cast the stone/s, you'all may want to make doubly sure of any of your statements on this or any other board, etc. are not equally biased or could be interpreted to be so by Johnny Cochran, et. al. And triply sure no posts were made from work, etc. as this is part of your charge. And quadrupley sure he actually did the posts, etc. And pentagon-tiply sure you "need" to do this. Don't live in a glass house, etc.

Gimmeaminute could hire the lawyer himself and have all your logs, records, etc. subpoenaed and file suit, counter suit , or how ever you lawyers want to call it. In any event you could miss some work your self and be involved, etc. Me, I have the ranch to take care of in this soon to be bad fire season and hope you'all will reconsider as i surely will be in his defense of poor judgement and nothing else ...40 lashes cat-o-nine tails do it? or are you'all really out for some kind of undefined vengeance. Any Texas Rangers out there. They'd say NO.

What is the REAL reason you and others "need" to do this as you push and suggest. Believe Gimmeaminute gave you some good words. Were they not enuff and to salve what? Are you and the other guyz related. A collusion perhaps ...in spirit if not in actuality.

This is just my opinion uninfluenced by any motive other than it smacks of an old fashioned crusade or vigilantism to me. I'm just a voice in the ever growing wilderness of net-talk i believe mebee still plying my trade of barter or call-to-reason and solve the problems at the crux of the matter ...not the peripheral issues always seem to be the center, but are not. Otherwise, do what you want.

The board is getting tattered and torn here by all who participate in all this nonsense of original posting and replys in kind, etc. Do you understand what it is i am saying? How far are you willing to go to take it down altogether? Re-think your motives.

anywho, just my thoughts guys
giveitsumthought
& cheers
At the risk of flogging a dead horse,mike mcmahon
May 10, 2001 9:16 PM
gimmemeaminute made some very offensive statements that some might interpret as homophobic. Although we have room for disagreement about cycling and related issues, we should, in my opinion, discourage racism, homophobia, and xenophobia whenever it appears on this board. In my opinion, one poster mistakenly interpreted one of Grz's phrases as racist. After several posters pointed out that this was a commonly used expression with no racial overtones, the anonymous critic did not resurface. However, in this case I feel quite confident that gimmeaminute crossed the line by, among other things, stating that I was "smoking his pole," polluting his uvula with my saliva, and bashing BON, my "boyfriend." After being called out, gimmeaminute sheepishly tried to turn the tables and accuse me of homophobia, which I found to be supremeley insulting. I won't go into self-congratulatory detail, but I have done some volunteer work with gays who were tragically stricken with AIDS and have never before been accused of homophobia. With all of this said, I see no reason to marshal the forces of litigation or workplace whistle-blowing against gimmeaminute. I think the venemous nature of the posts about gimmeaminute are directly attributable to the vicious nature of the posts that engendered the responses. I for one appreciate your efforts at peace-making, but it would be more meaningful coming from the person who started this firestorm.

Thanks for listening, Mike
Ok Guyz :)Breck
May 11, 2001 6:31 AM
Yikes, no dead horses pleeze. Was field mowing with the Troy-Built sickle bar mower yesterday morn and run over the buzz tail (rattler) next to the lower horse corral.

Am pretty naive at 58 years old & growing up in conservative Texas. Came to Calif. when 24, and never caught up with all this drug talk and other slang "stuff". Have shelf full of reference books but not real experience as you have. Words convey ideas to me too, but don't always believe it is the persons true feelings. And a cursory review of the Bored will show up things let lie like the sleeping dog. Others ignite due to the personalities involved. Nuff said from me.

Hay, mebee see yah in the mountains.

cheers Big Guy!
Ok Guyz :)Breck
May 11, 2001 6:57 AM
First off it's not your bored for me to leave, as you have become the chief bored monitor i see as in me here, you there. I've worked with guyz like you and know your type. But hay, type is type and we all gotta, know?

We have diffs which could never get sorted out as you're plying right field and me left. Mebee center field as Duke Snyder 50's old Brooklyn Dodgers is the way to go. I do wonder what your true motives are. Sure you are quite sure.

The electronic e-board is a small finite percentage of those ride the bike. The bored is never bout biking & with out the webmaster enforcing the pact, as you have taken his place, you have your work cut out for you. Bet you disappear off these pages sooner than later, your job done and must move on, huh? Betcha Red Ryder. Sad cheers for you my friend nd those of your ilk.

jest my take & hope have not said anything out of line get my name, rank, and serial number posted. But hay, am the Foreman of the Ranch here & we get no rural mail delivery. Get it? Got it.

BAL
Shooting Star Ranch
S. D. County, Calif. USA
Ok Guyz :)...no masBreck
May 11, 2001 9:04 AM
Bet you if you, me, mike, grz, and steve would have set down over a cup of joe and had "the" discussion it would have sounded different. i don't know, just my best guess. we all have a few kinks in our personalities and buttons get pushed and re-pushed and the normal 50 amp fuse goes. push the button and no re-editing or updating as on some boards. be fair, has it ever happened to you?

aahhh London, got a Nike beret there few months ago. no mas as this south forty stuff is floatsam under the bridge. i do sleep well and am never really rude if you could hear the inflection in my voice. am some what soft spoken and get plenty of rest running this one-horse ranch after 40 years of 12 hour days. i got work before HR and all the rulze kikked in. am never rude to guests, but we are antithetical in our view points here just like Tom Sawyer & Huck Finn.

it is really regrettable that this snowball got rolling down hill as it could have been avoided with a little up-front more careful word usage by all involved. but hay, the bull's out of the corral now and won't go back. does need some steering but got no cows. :)

cheers as a no mas sine wave
Ok Guyz :)...no masmike mcmahon
May 11, 2001 10:23 AM
A cup of coffee with you, Grz, and MJ sounds like a great idea. In fact, inviting gimmeaminute might even be fun, as we may learn to regard him differently after meeting him in person. I believe Breck, Grz, gimme, and I are all in California, but with such a big state we're certainly too spread out to make it happen. Too bad. Over and out.

Mike