|STI shifters ROCK!||chrisD|
May 8, 2001 11:11 AM
|i know this is a meaningless post but it IS in the general discussion so what the hell...
i havn't ridden a road bike since the days of the downtube shifters... i've recently built up a new road bike and intalled a new pair of dura-ace sti levers. i was really hesitant to use them at first (hard to give up the old ways!) but man i've got to say...
STI LEVERS ARE THE BEST PIECE OF ENGINEERING to hit the bicycle industry since the XTR rapid rise (reverse spring) rear derailleur!
the ability to shift while climbing on the hoods or EVEN BRAKING is awesome!!!
just had to give my 2 cents!
|Are you quite sure? If you are this jazzed about STI...||Greg Taylor|
May 8, 2001 11:21 AM
|...then I can't wait to see your reaction to modern innovations like clipless pedals and having more than 7 gears out back! (Just kidding...I like them too. Don't like the "rapid rise" derraileur, however...)|
May 8, 2001 11:27 AM
|STI/Ergo came out AFTER clipless pedals|
|No, it's hey "smart aleck", and it's "Mr. Smart Aleck" to you...||Greg Taylor|
May 8, 2001 2:35 PM
|I was just pleasantly amused by the dude's sincere enthusiasm at discovering something that has been around for a while and a lot of us take for granted. Reminds me of how wonderful the engineering on our bikes really is, even if we can't all agree on precisely how wonderful it is or which brand is more wonderful than the other brand... Don't let good-natured teasing be confused with an attempt to be historically accurate.|
|I Know how you feel....||that'smrfredtoyou|
May 8, 2001 2:56 PM
|Some of these guys just don't get it......|
|Are you quite sure? If you are this jazzed about STI...||chrisD|
May 8, 2001 11:30 AM
|aw come on... it makes absolutely no mechanical sense to have opposite spring forces on two devices that do the exact same function! (it's bad user interface to use a computer term!)
you've got two (or in the case of STI) four levers that both perform the same function but they operate in opposite directions! that's crazy don't you think?
|I Don't Follow You||grz mnky|
May 8, 2001 12:28 PM
|As a mechanical engineer, and having rebuilt them, I don't follow what you're saying. The two levers on the STI shifter don't do the "exact same thing" nor do they work against each other. The main lever is sprung against the base and the second lever is sprung against the first. One shifts up, the other shifts down. Remove either spring and the thing won't work, therfore it must be serving some function. Sounds like a bit of Campy bias - which is fine.|
|I Don't Follow You||chrisD|
May 8, 2001 12:51 PM
|what i'm talking about is the fact that...
...on the rear derailleur, you activate lever A to shift to a higher gear and lever B to shift to a lower gear.
...on the front derailleur, you activate lever A to shift to a LOWER gear and lever B to shift to a HIGHER gear. ( i may be transposing my levers but i think you get the idea).
see how the actions are opposite? the same lever A or B acts differently depending on which derailleur you are using! (the springs of the derailleurs are actuated in reverse directions from each other)
it was painfully obvious using a gripshift system on my mtb bike (before i got the rapid-rise rear derailleur). i would twist the right shifter FORWARD to downshift but the left shifter BACK to downshift. the reverse spring on the rapid-rise now makes these actions the same: twist BOTH shifters back to downshift and FORWARD to upshift!
|I Don't Follow You||Len J|
May 8, 2001 1:00 PM
|I find the opposite to be true. Let me explain:
When I am getting ready to sprint and am running in a 39X14 the first thing I do is shift both STI levers at once which puts me in 53X16 (bigger gear in front & bigger gear in back which for me is roughly the same effort) and gets me easily to the point of being able to upshift thru the Big ring with only one hand. The opposite is also true, if I'm runnung in the 53 ring and come up to a hill I can down shift front(to the 39) & up-shift rear by moving both lower STI levers at the same time. Then I can downshift as necessary on the rear with one hand.
I hope this makes sense.
|I Don't Follow You||chrisD|
May 8, 2001 1:18 PM
|yeah, i see what you're saying....
you're talking about upshifting or downshifting your entire drivetrain (as in increasing or decreasing your gear ratio) as opposed to upshifting or downshifting the chainrings/cassette individually. that might be a better way of thinking about it, i guess?
i'm realizing just how much i don't know about the mechanics/mathmatics of drivetrains!
|I Don't Follow You||4bykn|
May 8, 2001 1:43 PM
|Think of it this way: the bigger levers shift to a bigger cog/chainring, and the smaller levers shift to a smaller cog/chainring.|
|Got It||grz mnky|
May 8, 2001 2:13 PM
|Yeah, now I know what you mean. I think it's a familiarity thing - I don't even think about it b/c it's imprinted into my brain after so much time. When I work on a Rapid Rise setup it really messes me up and I have to start thinking about what I'm doing. The I rode a friend's MTB who was used to the way the levers worked on motorcycles so he swaped them on the MTB to match - talk about endo potential...|
May 9, 2001 6:42 AM
|does the same lever really do something different?????? same lever on both put the cable into more tension, same lever on both relieves tension. sounds like they are designed the same. it is just that in the bike the tension direction more the chain in opposite directions, ie to the big ring, or to a bigger cog. gee, that is the same too isn't it??
get 'em grz
|STI shifters rattle, Campy Ergo ROCKS||club|
May 8, 2001 1:27 PM
|personally, I prefer levers that don't rattle when I ride, and don't try to pivot sideways when I apply the brakes. Yeah, Shi(censored)mino did it first, but Campy did it RIGHT.|
|Probably Why They Charge More..... ;-)||grz mnky|
May 8, 2001 2:19 PM
|To each his/her own. |
The rattle drives me nuts also, so I remove the little plastic caps and put them back on with silicone. Nice and quiet, but too much screwing around for the end user.
|Some rattles are worse than others||DCP|
May 8, 2001 3:39 PM
|Mine rattle by contact between the two shift levers. Really, really annoying. So many rattles, too few solutions, except to buy new levers of course. I'm way too cheap to do that.|
May 8, 2001 6:15 PM
|Hey, can you give us a refresher on the "silicone to silence the levers" thing. I saw a post about it a while ago, but don't remember exactly what the process was. I need to do something about the rattling ... it's driving me up the wall.|
May 8, 2001 2:20 PM
|If you can't shift Shimano without applying the breaks, should you really be riding a bike? what I mean is that pedaling and steering at the same time must be very difficult for you.|
May 8, 2001 2:34 PM
|Wow are you the critic today!
Makes me want to just sprint away and leave you in the headwind all by your lonesome!
Give Chris a break.
May 8, 2001 2:37 PM
|Hah, be glad I'm in a good mood - I would have said something worse, but then I own the cynic market.|
|Nope, you are just renting. And your rent is late.||that'smrfredtoyou|
May 8, 2001 3:02 PM
|I suppose you want a three day pay or quit? Better you degrade others than applaude yourself. Stick to what ya know.|
|Thanks Dickwad||grz mnky|
May 8, 2001 5:45 PM
|Just following your advice - you're right! I suddenly feel omniscient.|
May 8, 2001 7:15 PM
|A guy I used to work with took the deposition of a fellow named Richard Weed, although he used the name Dick, making him "Dick Weed." I also had a friend from high school who claimed that his dad had a friend named Dick Smoker. Again, unrelated to the thread but funny (at least to me).|
May 9, 2001 3:58 AM
|Not related, but another true dick story. Many years ago we were trying to explain a job to a sub contractor. The job happened to be at one of Dicks houses.After a few minutes of explaning the sub still had no idea what to do. He was finally told"just go on down to Dicks house--Dick knows" His response was "I will go on down to Dicks house , but "dont you ever call me dick nose again" LLS|
|I went to school with a guy named Richard Biddolph. All through||bill|
May 9, 2001 3:42 PM
|elementary school, Richard, as we knew him, enjoyed a happy and prosperous (in elementary school terms) existence. After making it all the way to junior high, a substitute teacher one day read the role and said, "Okay, I'll play along. "Dick Biddolph." It had never occurred to us. |
He left school shortly thereafter. As far as I know, it was for unrelated reasons, but, who knows?
|You are welcome.||that'smrfredtoyou|
May 9, 2001 9:42 AM
|But once again, you are not getting with the progam. And don't stay mad because you got your butt kicked everyday in kindergarten. We wish you'd get over it. Now go be a good boy and offer some advice.
Please don't ride my nuts, it makes you look weak.
|You missed who my post was directed at.||J.S.|
May 8, 2001 4:06 PM
|I was not replying to Chris D but to Club with his anti-Shimano post. It is hard to follow who's posting to whom sometimes. Sprint all you want I'm gonna be on your wheel and I'll come around you at the line!|
|You missed who my post was directed at.||MrCelloBoy|
May 8, 2001 4:30 PM
|You got me J.S. Sorry about that. I'm still game. Come on out for the Terrible Two in Santa Rosa and lets go for it after 16'000 ft. of climbing! That's unless youre afraid of getting slammed by a 45 year old.|
|Sounds like fun! I like climbing.||J.S.|
May 8, 2001 5:21 PM
|I'll do that if you come down and do this MTB race I did this year. I'm the guy in 6th place. Notice the distance and elevation gain. Also 1st thru 4th were pro, semi-pro racers. I race 35-39 expert, I'm no spring chicken. |
|Sounds like fun! I like climbing.||MrCelloBoy|
May 8, 2001 5:33 PM
|Awesome! C'mon up to Sonoma County and we can do one of the Billy Cross 6-hour team races this summer. I did it last year and hurt for a week! Yes I Mtb also! Have you got a fixed gear?|
|You'll be in Luv||grz mnky|
May 8, 2001 6:15 PM
|Sounds like we got ourselves a show down, but probably just an idle pissing contest. Careful what you wish for - I know all too well that the TT ain't no tea party and I'm sure the other events aren't either.|
|re: STI shifters ROCK!||michael|
May 8, 2001 3:50 PM
|Whish I knew - I still have Le Ol Downtube Friction Shifters -
And I Like them fine, thank you (though not as much fun as the grip shifts on my MTB, or the original friction grip shifts that I had on a MTB about 12 years ago)
But thats a story for another board
|re: STI shifters ROCK!||Woof the dog|
May 9, 2001 1:50 PM
|They are nice, but they are a pain in the a$$. They are quite complex, so if something breaks or goes wrong you gotta buy a whole new thing, like I had to. If you crash, you can damage them and that would be expensive. They do rattle, often because a little screw that holds inside lever loosens up. They add weight too (heavier than downtubes). Ahh, nothing is simpler than good old downtube ones.
Woof, the "I long for old style" dog