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reach&drop(14 posts)

reach&dropmm
May 7, 2001 10:35 AM
looking for a light ergo bar with short reach & short drop. Is there an industry standard for arriving at these measurements? Does any type of comprehensive listing exist showing bar wts. and measurements? Any help/input/advise appreciated.
re: reach&drop5ive
May 7, 2001 1:10 PM
These measurements are taken either center-to-center or outside-to-outside. Take a look at the bottom of this page for diagrams (http://www.dedaelementi.com/eng/prodotti/215.htm). Most online order sites will list weight of handlebars, but to get the measurements you have to dig through the manufactures' sites. Following bars are known to have shorter reach+drop: Deda 215 "Shallow Drop", 3TTT Morphe, Ritchey Biomax (or WCS), Salsa Poco.

Good luck.
salsa pocoishmael
May 7, 2001 3:15 PM
has the shortest of both..i think they are great..also very light..
left hand is for cars, isn't it?ET
May 7, 2001 11:07 AM
Could be the all-left-hand thing is only for your car, when the car's turn signal is out. After all, you can't very well use your right hand (unless you're in England :-)) But the guy behind you often mistakenly thinks that left hand up means you're going to stop. I think right hand on bike for right turn is clearer, and in general the car behind you can see your right hand when you're on a bike, at least if you signal early enough.
re: proper way to signal a right turn?Akirasho
May 7, 2001 11:11 AM
... here in Ohio...

3. §11-606—Method of giving hand-and-arm signals (approved 12-0)

All hand-and-arm signals shall be given from the left side of the vehicle in the following manner and such signals shall indicate as follows:

1. Left turn—Hand and arm extended horizontally.

2. Right turn—Hand and arm extended upward. [Bicyclists may signal with right arm extended.]

3. Stop or decrease speed—Hand and arm extended downward.

Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions, a person operating a bicycle may give a right turn signal by extending the right hand and arm horizontally and to the right side of the bicycle.

Rationale: It is clearer to mention the right arm possibility for bicyclists in "2." rather than later, in a final paragraph. Adding that language " eliminates the need for the final paragraph, beginning with 'Notwithstanding . . .' which can now be deleted.

Remember that hand signals were invented for use in cars... not on bikes... extending your right arm in a car only aggravates the passenger...

Be the bike.
Let's think of the majority of the driving population.Delia
May 7, 2001 11:19 AM
Even though signaling with the left hand may technically be correct, some drivers (as mentioned in the thread) will look at that left hand at a 90 degree angle and think it means stop.

I have noticed on my rides that when you mention to a walker/jogger in your way (on your left), unless they are really bright, they end up either stopping to see who's yelling or actually moving to the left themselves, thereby placing themselves exactly where you don't want them to be. It is quite annoying. Anyway, in relation to what you were saying, if you signal with your right hand when making a right turn, the driver will understand (more quickly) what you mean then if you signal with your left. And that's all that matters in my opinion.
The way that's most visibleRich Clark
May 7, 2001 11:20 AM
My rule is to be seen. If I'm already to the right of the line of traffic, I signal with the "L" shape left hand signal, and also point my index finger to the right. I do this because it'll be more easily seen.

If I'm in the lane, I stick my right hand out.

I *always* point. Sometimes I point down and ahead when I intend to take the lane. Sometimes I point ahead and to the left when I'm at a Y-split and I'm taking the left fork.

I believe what matters is that drivers are never surprised by your next move.

RichC
right arm straight outDog
May 7, 2001 12:01 PM
Every rider I've seen in over 20 years has used the right arm out method. I think that's what other riders expect, at least.

If a auto driver can't see your right arm, you're in trouble. If in a paceline, the signal should be repeated by the following riders.

Doug
proper vs. safestParker
May 7, 2001 12:01 PM
After a number of close calls caused by drivers not understanding
the "proper" rt hand turn signal (the left arm L), I switched
to pointing with my right hand/arm and haven't had any problems since.
I guess it depends on the drivers in your area, but for me it
was a question of "You wanna be right or you wanna be safe?"
re: proper way to signal a right turn?Dinosaur
May 7, 2001 1:56 PM
My method is rather unothodox and probably illegal. I point at myself then I point at where I want to go. I believe this is the method they use in europe. If I want to make a right turn, I point at myself with my left index finger, then I point to my right using the same hand. I make very overt and blatant movements. In other words "me want to go there". It removes any doubt. Guess I could get busted for making an illegal hand signal. On the bright side, I don't have to deal with much traffic so I don't have to worry about signals very often.
careful, you'll get arrested and bookedDog
May 7, 2001 3:47 PM
Just a funny. If our law enforcement officers start citing or arresting cyclists for improper hand signals, I'd be very happy. That must certainly mean that all other crime in the country has been eliminated.

I think your area is about like mine -- about 4 turns in 100 miles.

Doug
That's my method too. . .9WorCP
May 7, 2001 6:11 PM
only I use this for approaching bike traffic on the 59th street bridge or the occasional park ride. I used to be appalled that people are so unable to grasp a simple common precept that traffic in this country should stay on the "right" side of the path. Now I sign the semi-ape "me go this side" gesture and don't even feel remotely retarded or self-conscious anymore. That signal is the only one that works.
howling in the nightWoof the dog
May 7, 2001 11:22 PM
Forget about left hand up to signal right turn. I use hand signals at the stop signs mostly and they (signals) are 99 percent of the time for the cars in front of me, not behind. Right hand for right turn makes sense and doesn't confuse drivers.
I outtie
Woof, the signalling dog. Did I spell that right?
Idiot-proof methodmr_spin
May 8, 2001 9:00 AM
No one has seriously paid attention to hand signals since the 1960s. I'm not sure they even teach them anymore. I'd guess few people know the difference between left and right done with one hand.

To signal a turn, I extend my arm straight out in the direction I want to go and point with my finger. If I'm going left, I use my left arm. If I'm going right, I use my right. It's simple, clear, and very effective.