|Endurox vs. Cytomax vs. Gatorade vs. ?||DKD17|
May 4, 2001 5:53 AM
|What is the best sports drink to use while riding?|
May 4, 2001 6:06 AM
|give them a call and ask that question...you will get an abundance of info... sure, its somewhat biased..but they were very honest with me.
the guy i spoke to (shawn??) said that thier "during" drink is very similar to cytomax..and spoke very highly of cytomax...but thiers is quite a bit cheaper...gatorade has alot of sucrose, and ill let him explain all the reasons that is not the best choise..
by the way, this stuff is just carbs, not really a recovery drink.
i have used endurox as a recovery drink and am very happy with it...i asked how thier recovery drink compared to this, and again, he said that endurox was a great product and has alot of research behind it...Again, they based thier product on this, but rather than the 4:1 (carb to protein ratio) that endurox uses, they use a 5:1. they also dont have the chinese cijawa (???). which, im still a little iffy on how much that actually helps...
again, thier prices were CONCIDERABLLY cheaper.
whether or not you will notice a dif between smartfuel and cytomax..i highly doubt it, but your wallet sure will.
plus smartfuel supports local races and racers and seems to be very involved in promoting the sport, which is important to me....
the website for hammergel also has a lot of info on this stuff (primarily sucrose, fructose, etc) check that out too...
May 4, 2001 10:29 AM
|What is their phone #, or where can one buy the stuff??.....thanks|
May 4, 2001 3:28 PM
|Last months issue of "Triathalete" had a nice comparison of most drinks, bars, and gels.|
|re: Endurox vs. Cytomax vs. Gatorade vs. ?||Bosephus|
May 4, 2001 7:38 AM
|Endurox is a recovery drink see this month's Outside Magazine for a great article on Endurox and Recovery in general. It isn't designed for consumption during a workout. |
Outside Magazine - Ed Burke Article
I would avoid Gatorade, Powerade, and the other convenience store brand drinks due to the high sucrose content (some even have High Fructose corn syrup in them). Cytomax does the job for me, I haven't tried Smart Fuel, but it is a whole hell of a lot cheaper ... might be worth a go.
|wow..great article (nm)||jayz|
May 4, 2001 8:12 AM
|you also gotta remember||ColnagoFE|
May 4, 2001 11:17 AM
|Ed Burke is probably getting paid to endorse Endurox so his claims of superiority are suspect to me...plus Endurox is not non-dairy which leaves it out for me. I've always had great luck w/ Cytomax for general hydration and Gu's for racing.|
|Ed Burke and Endurox||Bosephus|
May 4, 2001 11:35 AM
|He basicly, invented Endurox for Pacific Health Company, so it's a little different than just Joe shmoe super athlete getting paid to endorse a product. Granted he's going to want it to do well. It says something that just about every other recovery drink out there is in some form a copy of Endurox which started the "recovery movement" in sports nutrition. |
Sorry about the dairy thing ... I don't have any dairy problems. That must be a pain...
May 4, 2001 8:11 AM
|I can't say that I understand all of the science behind it, but I'm a confirmed Endurox user. It virtually eliminates sore muscles after a ride, even a Century. For the ride itself, I mix a little Endurox and Hammer Gel, after the ride: 2 scoops of endurox.
The downside is that it's expensive...
|ELiminate sore muscles?||ColnagoFE|
May 4, 2001 11:18 AM
|Thats' a pretty strong claim...any scientific tests prove this?|
May 4, 2001 11:50 AM
|Read Ed Burke's 1999 "Optimal Muscle Recovery" results of testing are in the book. |
Again granted it is Ed Burke and Pacific Health that did the study, but this was prior to the actual introduction of Endurox to the Market and was really just a test of a prototype at that point. Pacific Health was in the process of looking for a product to do exactly what Endurox claims to do. They wanted a legitimate product to fill a gap ion the marketplace. They weren't about to latch on to some gimmick. From what I understand their testing was fairly thorough and honest. It's not as if they had anything invested in that particular product at that point. They could have chosen just about any product at that point added the name Endurox and brought it to market. Point is the R4 system that Ed Burke came up with actually worked. Chris Carmichael and the US Postal Team can't be totally wrong.
Also, check out what people from Performance have said in the customer survey. I admit you have to somewhat suspect of people talking about how great something is that they already spent their money on (don't want to feel like they wasted their money), but they only spent $40. It's not like they dropped $3000 on a new bike or something.
Performance - Real Rider Rating
May 4, 2001 4:21 PM
|My muscles feel much less sore after I drink endurox for recovery than when I don't. It's admittedly subjective, but the stuff seems to help...|
|re: Endurox vs. Cytomax vs. Gatorade vs. Tang (NM)||Dinosaur|
May 4, 2001 8:17 AM
|I'm watching this thread with interest||Alex R|
May 4, 2001 9:51 AM
|I've been poking around for a "hydration drink". I find the whole concept a bit confusing. I know there are differences between energy, recovery and fueling drinks, but am not quite sure what I need.
Perhaps someone can clear up the mystery.
May 4, 2001 10:44 AM
|I'm not an expert, but here's my take from the research I have done... |
You need fuel for your bodies daily needs and to prepare for a workout, race, or event.
You need energy during an event to keep going.
You need recovery food after an event to help your body repare itself from the damage that excercise does.
Go read the article referenced above it is very informative without being too scientific.
Bottom line you need all three types of food.
Do you need all three types of "diet supplements"? NO!
You can get everything you need from normal foods you can pick up at any grocery store ... however, this takes some effort on your part to understand exactly what you eat. It is sometimes easier to just by the supplements to make sure you get what you need.
You still have to pay attention to the other stuff you eat, but more along the lines of avoiding things you shouldn't eat at that point, and keeping your kcal intake at the right level so you don't start deleting your body or getting fat.
Just my lay-mans take ...
|Good post because...||bigdave|
May 4, 2001 2:46 PM
|while it might sound simplistic, it's true. Most of the stuff is nothing *that* special, just easier... mix one or two drinks, rip open a packet and away you go.
I always find these nutrition products, or at least some of them, to be like saddle choice: one doesn't work for everyone. I've had good luck with some that others hated; I get sick on stuff others swear by.
Bottom line, IMHO: get a few sample size packets of a particular product your interested in if possible... I know you can get individual Cytomax packets for example. Then, try it out without spending a bunch of $$... if it agrees with you, go for it. If not, well, try another.
I wish there were cookie-cutter solutions (mmm... cookies) for this stuff, but alas, there is not.
|re: Endurox tastes like crap.....||WCC|
May 4, 2001 3:17 PM
|...but Im convinced it works. I cant drink it on a ride tho, because i would puke.|
|Have you tried the fruit punch...||vram|
May 5, 2001 9:46 PM
|it is way better than the Orange. I went through the Orange flavor first, and it did taste like crap--my girlfriend thought it smelt like fart :) It helps to mix the Endurox with some fruit juice to mask the flavor. I am currently using the fruit punch and it is a great improvement. But as you said, flavor aside, Endurox works.|
|try hammer gel and sustained energy||look271|
May 4, 2001 7:52 PM
|Buy direct. Good stuff. Relatively cheap. Mix the flavors if you like. No simple processed sugars and is way cheaper than Endurox with the same or better results. Sustained energy uses soy protein as oppossed to whey for R4. Soy is easier to digest and cheaper, too. www.hammergel.com|
|try hammer gel and sustained energy||docmike|
May 15, 2001 8:41 AM
|i intensly studied the hammergel site. i think dr. misner has a well balanced formula for pre-race supplements. it is very important to eat only 3 hours prior to the event to allow insulin levels to return to normal. stored body fat can be used more effectivley with this type of method. smaller amounts of protien in a performance drink is a good idea. your body will draw upon some protein for fuel just because the liver cannot convert muscle glycogen fast enough even if you are using a sugar drink. his system costs upwards of a 100 dollars though. i ordered the sustained energy, hammer gel, cardio caps, endurolytes, ant-fatigue-caps, and enduro caps. i'll keep you posted on the results.|
|try hammer gel and sustained energy||look271|
May 15, 2001 8:52 AM
|I use the hammer gel and sustained energy, along w/ the endurolytes. You're right, it ain't cheap, but if you stay w/ those pruducts it isn't so bad.I'm a little sceptical about the claims of the other products.(race caps, cardiocaps, etc)|
|try hammer gel and sustained energy||docmike|
May 15, 2001 9:58 AM
|how would you compare hammergel to cytomax?|
|try hammer gel and sustained energy||look271|
May 15, 2001 2:47 PM
|I like it. I've used both, and, while I liked cytomax, it was just too sweet. Once you get used to hammergel, you should find that you will like it. It's DEFINATELY not as sweet as other gels or drinks. Sometimes I use it in the flask; other times I'll mix 2-3 servings in a big h20 bottle. I prefer using it straight and drinking plain h20 with it. Performancewise, I seem to have more stamina and I definately like the fact that it uses no processed simple sugars. I recommend trying the apple-cinnamon or raspberry flavors. Expresso is good, too, and it has some caffiene in it. :-)|
|Endurox post ride. Sustained Energy or Cytomax during||Cora|
May 5, 2001 2:29 PM
|I've found Endurox to be an excellent post ride recovery drink. Maybe it's all in my head, but I feel less fatigue and soreness the next day after long or hard rides. |
During the ride I either use Cytomax or Sustained Energy. Sustained Energy when I'm doing endurance rides (it has protein - i.e. not all carbs). Cytomax for anything in the 2 hour range.
Gotta do what works for you, but I have settled in with the above routines.
May 6, 2001 11:39 AM
|I like Cytomax during a ride. It tastes good, seems to meet the body's needs, and does seem to help with lactic acid.
Endurox I like after a ride for recovery. It tastes pretty much like watered down milk. Maybe that's because it has protein and carbs in it.
Sustained Energy is the worst tasting garbage I've ever put in my mouth. Some of the rides I've been on had it there, and I couldn't stand it. It tastes to me like diluted vomit -- literally. Even the best stuff in the world isn't worth a darn if you won't drink it.
Then there is the old standby, Gatorade. As long as I have some plain water to drink, too, it works fine. A little too sweet all alone, though.
|Have you tried Extran?||vram|
May 6, 2001 3:25 PM
|I used Extran's carbo drink for a 70mile ride today and it works (even @ half strength)! It is loaded with carbo and tastes pretty good too. The Citrus tastes just like lemonade except it isn't as sweet. The only problem I have with Extran carbo is that it has no sodium or other elctrolytes. So my second water bottle has to have something that has sodium and elctrolytes. I also got the box packs of Extran carbo drink--it supposedly packs enough energy as six slices of bread and a banana!
TRying out various drink options before TOSRV this weekend. The Extran packs will come in handy, I am pretty sure.
May 7, 2001 7:30 AM
|Tried it full strength, and it gave me bad stomach cramps. I think it's really intended to be an energy supplement only, not a complete drink. I'd prefer to get all my needs satisfied with one thing (like Cytomax or Endurox). I might use it for fully supported events, but not otherwise.
|Have you tried Extran?||MF|
May 10, 2001 8:22 AM
|Extran comes in two strengths. One is for pre- and postevent use as a carbo loading drink. Gatorade once had a similar product, called Gatorlode. I suspect that's what you used, as Extran's other product -- their answer to Gatorade -- has absolutely no shortage of sodium.
If you read the labels of most energy drinks, they're pretty equally weighted between sodium and potassium. Extran is heavily weighted toward sodium and has a pretty salty taste, in my view. Gatorade is also weighted toward sodium, but not as much. This might be something to consider for someone who has high blood pressure problems.
May 9, 2001 7:42 PM
|Doug; you need to add some of their hammer gel to it(1-2 servings). tastes pretty good then (especially the new apple-cinnamon and expresso).|
May 10, 2001 7:33 AM
|i am a doctor and an elite level racer. after studying the krebs cycle (how the body turns fuel to energy) it would seem to me that fat supplementation would be needed. the body does not draw on fat very well in the presence of insulin. when you take these high sugar drinks, sure they refuel glycogen, but they also cause insulin spikes. (elite level riders don't tend to have a lot of fat to draw on anyways. any less and they could hurt themselves causing sickness for weeks). granted you need sugar to refill muscle glycogen, but you are missing out on an important link in energy production. when the body operates aerobically (HR 60-75% max), you will burn approxamatley 50% fat and 50% glycogen. if you have insulin present, stored body fat is hard to draw on. thats why i like to use a sugar drink and put a few table spoons of MCT fuel in it. MCT is not like a normal triglyceride. it is broken into smaller glycerides and much easier for the body to use as fuel. another thing about fat is that it drastically lowers insulin levels. this is not recomended as a recovery drink by any means, but an indurance drink. i have had great results. it also baffles me how these companies can call thier drinks recovery drinks with only like 25 grams of protien in them. you should be taking in 50 or more grams after a long ride, then another 50 2 hours later. the reason most cyclist cannot improve is because of thier diet. i have seen it so many times.|
|Please don't be insulted ... but||Bosephus|
May 10, 2001 8:00 AM
|I'm cracking up over here. |
Why do so many Doctors have such atrocious spelling, grammer, and typing skills?
I'm an Engineer so most of the people I work with have the same problem, but it still makes me laugh that someone could graduate from high school, go to college for four years, and go to Med school for four years and still not know how to spell endurance (not indurance).
Like I said ... please don't get offended ... I just think it's funny
You Doctors also have the worst handwriting ... what's that all about. Is it a prerequisite to get into Med school or something?
FYI the actual content of your note has some great points and valuable info ...
May 10, 2001 8:52 AM
|Just checked the nutritional info on sustained energy. Has 1gm fat per serving. Not much, but certainly more than most sugar drinks. As for why most companies don't do this? Perhaps it's our fat-phobia here in the USA. Most people don't realize that to burn fat, you must also take in fat.(I'm not talking about going out and having a Whopper right now, but in moderation! Nuts, olive oil, etc.)|
May 10, 2001 10:45 AM
|Yes, I realize i have bad grammer, but I was in quite a hurry when i wrote this. It's been a long time since I have ever had to type anything but instant messages, let alone write a correct paragraph. Like you said most people can't even read a doctors writing anyways.|
|I'm fond of Gookinade ERG ...||Humma Hah|
May 15, 2001 9:05 AM
|... which stands for Electrolyte Replacement with Glucose. Its a no-nonsense hydration drink, just enough sugar to help you absorb it, a whopping dose of potassium, some carbonate, lots of vitamin C. I find it a big improvement over Gatorade or Powerade. I also like the packaging, envelopes just right for making 60 ounces at about half strength, perfect for my hydration bladder, or a pair of 32 ounce water bottles.
It is NOT an energy drink, just a hydration drink. I get my energy from easily-digested foods and gel.
I refuse to use creatine, which most of the high-performance drinks contain. That's a personal thing. Some of these drinks are very high calorie and can substitute for gel, but I'd want a bottle of water available in case my body wanted just fluid, not calories.
|baby food and pedialyte||manstar|
May 15, 2001 12:22 PM
|what about pedialyte, and gerber baby food? its cheap, and maybe worth a shot.|
|Pedialyte is expensive and ...||Humma Hah|
May 15, 2001 7:15 PM
|... not really a very good electrolyte mix. I did buy some for my first aid kit, but it has little or no potassium. It is intended primarily to treat the trots. The price per sip is so far above any of the sports drinks, I doubt you'd try it more than once.
Most sports drinks contain too much sugar to be used for that. ERG is an exception, and it has been used to treat severe intestinal problems.
As for baby food, my understanding is that it is cheaper and more nutritous to make your own, by tossing regular food in the blender. Not ever having had any babies, I can't comment on the taste, and I've certainly never tried it for riding food.
|Cytomax Bites||grz mnky|
May 15, 2001 12:53 PM
|Stuff is awful ever since Champion Nutrtition sold the brand to Cytosports and they changed the formulation. Gatorade makes me cramp. Endurox is best as a recovery drink, but can be used for fuel on long endurance rides. My personal preference is Revenge, and not that lightweight "Sport" version. Also, I am a heavy GU user/abuser. Mix these two and you've got some "smash."|| |