|Colnago et al||Steeve|
May 1, 2001 12:33 PM
|Ever notice that there are some posters here that ALWAYS have to mention the brand of their bike for each of their posts regardless if it is pertinent? It only happens with those who own high end bikes. Why do they do this?
I don't always mention my Seven or my Derosa in my posts.
|re: Colnago et al||Susan|
May 1, 2001 1:11 PM
|Perhaps list responders are attempting to identify their unique characteristics by associating themselves with the spin that marketers construct for each brand. Posting one's opinion on this forum (and others), is an anonymous act that provides list readers with brief glimpses into the psyche of others. Those glimpses are hardly any way to effectively construct ideas of the personalities of others...especially infrequent responders. Maybe people like to project the idea of being the sort who ride expensive bikes to earn the respect of others. Who knows why? But then, why criticize the true enthusiast who is passionate about their sport?
You instigated this debate by what appears to be a criticism of others Steeve, yet your final sentence associates you with those who are questioned.
Does it really matter what sort of bike you ride? I don't believe so. What matters are how many miles you put onto the equipment and how you treat others who share the road or trail.
-my 5 cents worth, I'm out of pennies!
|yes it does matter....||Starliner|
May 1, 2001 1:37 PM
|... to a certain extent what sort of bike you ride....frame material, design and construction is important....as far as whose name is on the frame, often the importance is incremental....component differences can make the same frame ride slow or quick.....everybody has their own reasons for what makes them happy or not....like rattlesnakes and black widow spiders, judgement will always be a part of life, so I just let it pass....sorry for my john-de imitation...|
|re: Colnago et al||Steeve|
May 1, 2001 2:05 PM
|"You instigated this debate by what appears to be a criticism of others Steeve, yet your final sentence associates you with those who are questioned."
Ironic how I did that, isn't it? Or is it?
|re: Colnago et al||simstress|
May 1, 2001 9:47 PM
|You instigated this debate by what appears to be a criticism of others Steeve, yet your final sentence associates you with those who are questioned.
Hey I thought that was rather funny!
|I worked for it.||Brian C.|
May 1, 2001 1:27 PM
|I earned it. |
I budgetted for it.
Dare it be said, I deserve it.
And no amount of reverse snobbery will deprive the pleasure in it.
(I mean, the C-word was mentioned only in passing a couple of times because the generic noun (bike) didn't seem an appropriate usage.
No offence intended.)
|I worked for it.||Steeve|
May 1, 2001 2:18 PM
|("I mean, the C-word ...)"
I remember calling my girlfriend the C-word once.
(I mean Cutie, you pig.)
|Is your name spelled correctly?||The Jerk|
May 1, 2001 1:32 PM
|It would be pretty embarrassing if you couldn't even spell your own name right. |
ps: Yes, I have noticed that some poster have to mention the brand of their bike. Just like you. You had no reason to mention your Seven or your Derosa, but you did anyways. Are you looking to start a club or something?
|how come no one picks on you.||ishmael|
May 1, 2001 1:45 PM
|you are rude and it seems you are itchin for trouble, especially with a name like that...do you ask stupid questions sometimes too....i have no beef with you,im on your side, that was a wonderfull question..|
|how come no one picks on you.||Steeve|
May 1, 2001 2:27 PM
May I call you ishmael?
I am not trying to be rude, (it may just happen naturally). It was a serious question.
What is wrong with a name like Steeve?
Do I ask stupid questions too?
I appreciate the complment on my original question, thank-you.
|Is your name spelled correctly?||Steeve|
May 1, 2001 2:02 PM
|Hey Jerk, when you're right, you're right. My name is Steve.
For some reason I spell my name as Steeve not Steve when posting here. Why do I do this? I really would rather spell my name as Steve, but recently I have spelled it as Steeve. Can you tell me why I spell my name as Steeve instead of Steve? You are right, it is sort of embarrassing to see that I have spelled my name as Steeve and not correctly as Steve. I really want to spell it Steve but I always spell it as Steeve.
|keep working on it||ishmael|
May 1, 2001 2:10 PM
|you did it again!!!!its ok,im also a bad speller and have been attacked for spelling my name wrong...just keep working on it and you'll get it..you seem like a smart enough guy, im sure you'll get it...dont be discouraged by the rif raf here|
|keep working on it indeed||Spell Checker|
May 1, 2001 2:43 PM
|Rif raf is one word. It should be spelled "riffraff". |
God, I love my job!
|re: Colnago et al||Thioderek|
May 1, 2001 2:14 PM
|I mention the makes of my bikes because I am so pleased with them I think everyone should ride them. I just want to get the word out there.
Glad to see that you ride a De Rosa also.
|re: Colnago et al||dejohn|
May 1, 2001 2:28 PM
|you meant "posers" not "posters", right?|
|My real name is Frederick||that'smrfredtoyou|
May 1, 2001 2:41 PM
|Why do you have to pick on us? I got a good deal on my bike. Employee discount at Costco. I train real hard. I'm gonna finish a century. I hate getting blown off because I ask about "recreational" bikes. At least my bike has an ashtray and a bell. SO THERE!|
May 1, 2001 3:05 PM
|You end by stating that you own a Seven and a Derosa. How is it relevant to your argument? I would say it weakens it. I don't believe that the poseurs you talk about are many in number.
It is obvious to me that folks are often biased towards the frame material that they own/ride. It sometimes helps to make one's bias explicit when you criticize other frame materials/bike manufacturers. A lot of the time folks talk about their personal bike experiences and often times the bike they own may be integral to the point they are trying to make. In those instances, I don't see nothing wrong in stating what you ride.
Anyways, why is this an issue? Why have a thread on such a trivial subject?
May 1, 2001 5:13 PM
|No my stating that I own a Seven and a Derosa was not relevant to my argument, I was talking about references to bikes not being pertinent.|
|DeRosa is a high end bike in terms of price alone.||Allen|
May 1, 2001 3:28 PM
|Tommasini, on the other hand is a high-end bike you can buy direct at a great price, except in the USA of course.|
|DeRosa is a high end bike in terms of price alone.||Steeve|
May 1, 2001 5:16 PM
|I do not own a Tommasini, that is why it is not pertinent.|
|I Feel Sorry....||grz mnky|
May 1, 2001 5:38 PM
|...for the poor SOB's that own a DeRosa or a Seven. ;-) Seriosuly, they're great rides, but so what? |
It all comes down to insecurities and cognitive dissonance. Some feel the need for the daily affirmation along the lines of "Hey, I'm ok. I own a ______!" If this is you then fine, but it really makes little or no difference. The only significant aspect is if you have a question or a problem that is specific to that make and you want to find others that may have some info. Other than that we're all just boasting a bit. The really important thing is that you get out and ride and do not fall prey to the "deadly blue glow" of the idiot box and their manufactured opinions. If it was up to me I own at least one bike from every high end builder. But then how different would we be than the stereo-typical yuppy and their new BMW?
Grz Mnky - who doesn't own a Seven or a DeRosa 'cause everyone knows I ride a ____________!!
|I Feel Sorry....but then again, I'm just a Fred||that'smrfredtoyou|
May 1, 2001 8:45 PM
|Festinger's Theory of Cognitive Dissonance postulates that individuals, when presented with evidence contrary to their worldview or situations in which they must behave contrary to their worldview, experience "cognitive dissonance." Dissonance is defined here as an "unpleasant state of tension." Individuals will try to relieve this dissonance in one of two ways:
Increase the number of consistent cognitions - In order to assimilate inconsistent information to their worldview, individuals experiencing dissonance will increase then number of consistent cognitions, thereby abating the dissonance. This often involves rationalizing...i.e. myopic focus on facts, logic, or experience which reinforces an existing worldview. In most instances, the offending inconsistent cognitions are dismissed altogether as a result of this myopic focus on extant consistent cognitions. This is called "rationalizing" because the individual seeks out semi-logical conclusions using extant cognitions and newly created consistent cognitions in order to find a way to invalidate the inconsistent cognitions. The reader must understand that we are not talking about them.
Decrease the number of inconsistent cognitions - Individuals change their attitudes to compensate for inconsistent cognitions. Instead of rationalizing, the individual excises the inconsistent cognitions from their worldview. Bottom line, what the Fu*k are we on?
|But, you forgot to mention...||PsyDoc|
May 2, 2001 6:02 AM
|The four necessary conditions. The key assumption of the theory is that dissonance is psychologically uncomfortable and people are motivated to reduce this discomfort. Drawing together 30 years of dissonance research, Cooper and Fazio (1984) mapped out the processing steps involved in cognitive dissonance. According to the research, four steps are necessary if discrepant acts are to produce dissonance and then attitude change. If any step fails to occur, attitude change (and ultimately, behavior) will not happen. |
1. The individual must realize that the attitude-discrepant action has negative consequences. Actions that produce negative consequences, or even the possibility of such consequences, create the potential for dissonance arousal (Cooper & Brehm, 1971; Scher & Cooper, 1989). If the actions have no effects, we don't feel any uncomfortable affect.
2. The individual must take personal responsibility for the action. Basically, the person must believe that he or she freely chose to engage in the behavior. In the Festinger, Merrill, and Carlsmith study, no gun was held to the person's head. For example, Linder, Cooper, and Jones (1967) asked some participants to write essays that were counter to their beliefs about free speech and others were forced or required to do so. Some were paid to write for their essays. Those that were simply asked to write the counter attitudinal essay experienced considerable dissonance; whereas, those required or paid to write the essay showed no signs of dissonance arousal.
3. The individual must experience physiological arousal. Croyle and Cooper (1983) measured arousal by attaching electrodes to participant's fingers while they participated in an essay writing study. One group wrote proattitudinal essays, while the other wrote counter attitudinal essays. They were simply asked to write the essays, because they were told that it would facilitate the research. But, they were given a choice. Only participants who freely chose to write the essay that went counter to their attitudes showed an increase in physiological arousal.
4. The individual must attribute the arousal to the action. Cognitive dissonance does not occur simply because we are aroused. We must attribute the arousal to the inconsistency between our actions and our beliefs (Cooper & Fazio, 1984). This point has been demonstrated by many studies in which people believed their discomfort was due to something else--fluorescent lights, a pill they ingested, electric shocks they were anticipating, or prism goggles they were required to wear (Cooper, Zanna, & Taves, 1978; Fazio, Zanna, & Cooper, 1978; Pittman, 1975; Losch & Cacioppo, 1990). In such cases, the discomfort has no implications for the inconsistencies between attitudes and behaviors, because they attribute the cause to something else, the pill, for example.
Cognitive dissonance can be used to explain our decisions to chose one product (e.g., Colnago, Merlin, Moots, DeRosa, Seven, Serotta, etc.) or person over another. Brehm (1956) asked female students to evaluate several small appliances as part of a supposed study on consumer preferences. After they had rated the toaster, a coffee pot, a radio, and other products, they were told they could choose one as payment for being in the experiment. Some had to choose from two appliances they had found equally desirable (or perhaps a Merlin and Serotta)--a dissonance invoking dilemma. After they had made their choice, they were asked to evaluate the products one more time. Not surprisingly, the women evaluated the product they had chosen much more positively than the item they had rejected.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you...Leon Festinger...
May 2, 2001 11:46 AM
|His signature. My old boss at Bechtel nigh on 30 year ago had the initials W.W.W.,Jr. His script looked like a little tornado, starting slantways at the beginning and tapering off with an authoritative swirl. He confided in me that he had spent a good deal of time developing it. He believed that those in "position" should have a telling signature. It's a matter of style mebee, but always notice the "sig". |
Listening to Miles Davis' "Sketches of Spain" this AM
must check out his sig.
>Sketches of Spain
Columbia Jazz Masterpiece (re-issue)
20 bit digitally remastered
check it out
|Priceless! (nm)||grz mnky|
May 2, 2001 1:45 PM
|Pee off the back porch||Breck|
May 2, 2001 9:34 AM
|Re: "It all comes down to insecurities and cognitive dissonance. Some feel the need for the daily affirmation along the lines of "Hey, I'm ok." " |
Peein' off the back porch does it for me. Lookin' southward in the mornin' as the haze clears off Middle Peak; the Goose is trying to round up the latest chicks from their natural mother; the birds are tweetin'; the grass is growin'; "the plough man homeward plods his weary way -oops!, wrong plug in! ....well me?, just urinate right off the back porch and before that true force of nature hits the browning Lemon Bush, I smile and know all's right with the world.
|Does it for me||that'smrfredtoyou|
May 2, 2001 10:53 AM
|See the above posts and click off a few psych 101 credits. Then hit the porch and know we are with you.
I had a dog water bowl on the back porch this year. In the morning, the top few inches of the water would be frozen and I could lift the frozen circle out, poke a hole in it and string it up, hanging from a rain gutter. The dogs and I would spend the morning watching it change shape and reflect light and spin in the wind. By noon it was gone, just a hemp line blowing in the breeze. Later in the evening, the labs would happily sleep, knowing the night would bring another magical sculpture.
Rough grade comparision to peeing of the porch.
|Peeing Through the Screen||grz mnky|
May 2, 2001 1:44 PM
|That's what me and my brothers would do after we snuck back home from drinking beer and didn't want to wake the parents by using the BR which was next to their room. One just knew that if you were peeing through the screen then everything was going to be all right. Why didn't we open the screen first? Too much noise. Of course we were all underage and Dad never did figure out why the paint was discolored under some of the 2nd floor windows..... |
You forgot to mention what kind of bike your ride - or did you? ;-b
|Peeing Through the Screen||Breck|
May 3, 2001 8:51 AM
|1995/6 oclv purely by circumstance. bought a used one with a golf ball sized hole in the top tube, for the gruppo. took it to hank @ bicycles, etc. in El Toro to see how much trek would charge to repair. trek said no repair but would replace frame & fork for $220 + tax & shipping . so cost to me ws ~ $260, a no-brainer. |
one of my buds favorite expressions is "like a possum eatin' shitt thru a screen door". he got it from his grand dad, and neither he nor me has clue what it means.
|fergot to mention||Breck|
May 3, 2001 9:09 AM
|the broken frame had the aheadset, so i just sent in the frame. lo and behold got back the "new model" (the next years!) with the quill headset and fork to match. so wound up with spare carbon aheadset fork to boot. of course installed a King head set (an ez $110 to spend) & put trek's in the parts bin. |
btw grz, when i disassembled the the bike for shipping the bottom race of the aheadset had some rusty-brown water in it, so wonder if they (trek) were having some probs & so changed. of course they are back to the aheadset style. this i don't know for a fact, but my bud sez trek supplies the poasties with quill style headset & fork.
|Don't tell my mom||mike mcmahon|
May 3, 2001 10:57 AM
|but I used to pee in the kitchen sink at her house when returning home late from a long night of drinking. Unlike the bathroom, the kitchen was far enough from my folks' bedroom that I could run a little hot water down the draing without waking them. I'm so ashamed!|
|the defensive position||Dog|
May 1, 2001 5:29 PM
|First, I doubt anyone ALWAYS mentions the brand of their bike in each of their posts. But, besides that, I have found that I identify people by their bikes more than their faces or names. Countless times I've seen people at events that I know I've seen before and I couldn't for the life of me place them without their bikes. You know, "the guy on the Merlin..."
Further, what's wrong of being proud of your bike, no matter what it is? Honestly, my favorite (but not fastest) 2 bikes I have are my Bianchi Milano and my 1980 Bianchi. There -- I name dropped. I love those bikes, and countless times I've referenced them here in this forum. Together they aren't worth $600 right now. But, they mean a lot to me, as I imagine most people's bikes mean to them.
Also, we can't ignore the fact that many times the bike identification is relevant to the discussions. If you are discussing the differences in frame materials, you pretty much have to identify the bike to be meaningful. OTOH, if you are discussing cell phone usage by car drivers, the bike ain't important -- but then I don't think you really get that in those discussions.
Further, post here and reference the fact that you are excited about getting a new bike. You know what happens? Not only will people instantly ask you about the intimate details of what you are getting, but they will want pictures and your feedback on the ride as well. Yes, we are very interested in what others ride. After all, this is the "roadbikereview" website.
Finally, as others noted, if you are really trying to make a point, why the heck did you do the same thing? Doesn't make sense.
All in all, no big deal, though. I don't think this is the pervasive problem that you imply it is. IMHO.
(proud owner of 3 Bianchi's, a KHS, and a Colnago - and past owner of 2 other Bianchi's, a Specialized, an Airborne, a Huffy (yes!), a Peugeot, and a Sears Free Spirit, among others I can't remember) :-)
|Now *That* was a Machine!||grz mnky|
May 1, 2001 5:41 PM
|The Sears Freespirit of course!|
|I kicked some serious butt on my Free Spirit. . . .||mike mcmahon|
May 1, 2001 9:08 PM
|until some rat bastard stole it from the front of the Food King while I was inside getting a Coke and a bag of Nacho Doritos. If anyone out there has a vintage Free Spirit and is willing to depart with it, e-mail me. However, I will check the serial number and, if it matches my old beauty, I'm calling the cops. ;-)|
|Sears Free Spirit||Breck|
May 3, 2001 10:13 AM
|Back in ~1972 Huntington Beach, i rode the blue Pugeot (bought at a garage sale for $10) to and from work. Occasionally at the end of work would be un-locking the bike samer time this guy with a Free Spirit was. We would race (though never acknowledge it) to the first stop sign down off Graham St. He typically beat my butt and (at the time) could never figger it out. Shitt, a Free Spirit beatin' the Pugeot with the Lion's Crest! |
Mwebee this was you, however you would have had to be about 30 back then, as i was :)
|Still in H.B.?||mike mcmahon|
May 3, 2001 10:42 AM
|I used to live at PCH and 14th in Huntington Beach. I was only 10 in '72, so it seems unlikely it was me you were racing to Graham. Although a few people have told me that I look older than my age, I'd hate to think that I looked 30 when I was 10.|
|Still in H.B.?||Breck|
May 3, 2001 1:21 PM
|I live near Julian now off a remote dirt road @4,200 ft. |
PCH & 14th?
it's been so long i need a map.
is that down near the pier?
ahh, i remember 1962.
ray charles "hit the road jack" was a biggie then.
|the defensive position||Steeve|
May 2, 2001 7:52 AM
|"Finally, as others noted, if you are really trying to make a point, why the heck did you do the same thing? Doesn't make sense."
Ironic how I did that, isn't it? Or is it?
|Huffy, Murray, AMF, Ross etc:||Car Magnet|
May 1, 2001 6:45 PM
|The true classics!!|
|The Way We Were||mike mcmahon|
May 1, 2001 9:12 PM
|Dang, you guys are bringing up all the old names. I had a Ross Mt. Rainier, one of Ross's first mountain bikes. I used to rack myself up pretty good on that thing, that is until it was stolen when I left it parked on a college campus while I went off campus for some binge drinking. I'm not willing to pay for a "vintage" Mt. Rainier.|
|it's a james bond 007 thing with me||Breck|
May 1, 2001 8:13 PM
|ian fleming always mentioned the brand names in the novels. |
you know, aston martin db4, beretta .25, walther ppk, chesterfield kings, zippo gun metal lighter. gives it a more personal touch.
oclv ice tea, & gator aide ..shaken, not stirred. yikes!
the bad guys always ride red huffys (:)
except for andy hampsten!
|or the BMX nijas, so I've heard||that'smrfredtoyou|
May 1, 2001 8:49 PM
|When I get a chance, I'll check it out. Otherwise, on film, we call it product placement...|
|re: Colnago et al||seth1|
May 2, 2001 7:10 AM
|I've got a Kestrel 200sci and a Trek 1200 .|
|It's a joke||bianchi boy|
May 2, 2001 7:14 AM
|Steeve is engaging in a little ironic humor here as well as doing a dead-on impression of johnde/ishmael, IMHO. But then I ride a Bianchi, what do I know?|
|It's a joke||grz mnky|
May 2, 2001 1:51 PM
|Yup, irony and cynicism don't translate well across the wires - I think it has something to do with the fact that electrons don't have a sense of humor. Or maybe that's the readers of the posts.....;-)|| |