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i dont know if this is good for bikers(42 posts)

i dont know if this is good for bikersishmael
Apr 26, 2001 5:23 PM
but most of us probably drive too...> > > >I got this from a reliable source & the website
listed
: > > > >
: > > > > >is legit. We heard today from a man who is very savvy
: > > > >
: > > > > >about the economy, namely, Clark Howard, and he says
: > > > >
: > > > > >that the gas prices are going to start going up again
: > > > >
: > > > > >and will be high this summer-$2.00 and up. We need to
: > > > >
: > > > > >do whatever we can, and do it
: > > > >
: > > > > >NOW!!!!
: > > > >
: > > > > >
: > > > >> > >Gasoline Prices
: > > > >
: > > > > >> >
: > > > > >This makes more sense than the don't buy gas on a
: > > > >
: > > > > >certain day routine that was going around last year
: > > > >
: > > > > >re: Gasoline Prices. Whoever started this has a good
: > > > >
: > > > > >point. By now, you're probably thinking gasoline
: > > > >
: > > > > >priced at about $1.49 is cheap. Me too, as it is now
: > > > >
: > > > > >$1.58 for regular unleaded!
: > > > >
: > > > > >> >
: > > > > >Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have
: > > > >
: > > > > >conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of
: > > > >
: > > > > >gas is CHEAP at less than $1.50, we need to try an
: > > > >
: > > > > >aggressive response. With the price of gasoline going
: > > > >
: > > > > >up more each day, we consumers need to take ACTION!
: > > > >
: > > > > >The only way we are going to see the price of gas come
: > > > >
: > > > > >down is if we don't buy it. But, (as the gas companies
: > > > >
: > > > > >know full well, and are counting on), that's not
: > > > >
: > > > > >really a practical option since we all have come to
: > > > >
: > > > > >rely on our cars. But we CAN have an impact on gas
0 OH! The horror! (Viewfinder discretion advised)
this is the rest of itishmael
Apr 26, 2001 5:25 PM
But we CAN have an impact on gas
: > > > >
: > > > > >prices if we all act together.
: > > > >
: > > > > >> >
: > > > > >Here's the idea: For the rest of this year, don't
: > > > >
: > > > > >purchase gasoline from the two biggest companies
: > > > >
: > > > > >(which now are one), namely EXXON and MOBIL. You see,
: > > > >
: > > > > >if they are not selling, they should be inclined,
: > > > >
: > > > > >(i.e., "forced"), to reduce their prices. And, because
: > > > >
: > > > > >of their size, and hence market share, if they reduce
: > > > >
: > > > > >their prices the other companies will too. (They would
: > > > >
: > > > > >HAVE no choice!). Isn't that a "juicy" prospect? But
: > > > >
: > > > > >to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions
: > > > >
: > > > > >of users. But it's do-able!
: > > > >
: > > > > >> >
: > > > > >I am sending this note to 42 people. If each of you
: > > > >
: > > > > >send it to at least 10 more ...and those 10 send it to
: > > > >
: > > > > >at least 10 more and so on, by the time the message
: > > > >
: > > > > >reaches the sixth iteration, we will have reached over
: > > > >
: > > > > >one million consumers. Acting together we can make a
: > > > >
: > > > > >difference. If this makes sense to you, please pass
: > > > >
: > > > > >this message on, or one you compose, to at least 10
: > > > >
: > > > > >more E-mail addresses. PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY
: > > > >
: > > > > >LOWER THEIR PRICES TO BELOW $1.28 - $1.29 AND KEEP
: > > > >
: > > > > >THEM DOWN. THIS CAN REALLY WORK!
: > > > >
: > > > > >> >
: > > > > >If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!
: > > >
if i had my wayishmael
Apr 26, 2001 5:31 PM
gas prices would be 5.00 and we would all be forced to take public transport or bike but since thats unlikely this may be the next best thing ...atleast its empowering..im not even sure if i want to help support automobile driving at all but another side of me says to help stop opec because its an unamerican monopoly...it seems like the better of two evils to me to pass it on so i am, do with it what you want..
You're an idiot,TJeanloz
Apr 26, 2001 5:59 PM
Next time you're in college, which I assume will be your first time, check out Priciples of Economics (preferably micro). The oil industry is very mature and prices are not being manipulated to any real degree by OPEC or the oil companies- they are both price takers. Output is more or less fixed, demand is rising, the oil will go to whoever wants to pay for it the most.
check your facts smartyishmael
Apr 26, 2001 6:27 PM
opec is ilegal in this country because it is a monopoly...monopolies manipulate prices..and even if opec werent, they have the power to do so...can you argue with that...
check your facts smartyTJeanloz
Apr 27, 2001 7:00 AM
Who ever told you that monopolies are illegal? They're not. How many power companies can you choose from? How many local telephone companies can you choose from? Monopolies aren't illegal; they do have to play by special rules, but they aren't illegal.

Furthermore, OPEC isn't a monopoly. A monopoly implies one producer (hence the 'mono'), and OPEC is actually several producers colluding to try to affect price. The correct term is a 'cartel'. OPEC theoretically does have the power to affect prices- but they've really only been successful once or twice. All the members are greedy bastards, and as soon as the price starts rising, one of them begins to cheat on the others and produce more than their quota. Thus historically, OPEC has really not been very good at manipulating prices, despite their best intentions.

The real winners in this latest round are the oil companies who have a product in such high demand that they can charge a lot for it.
check your facts smartymerckx56
Apr 28, 2001 3:08 PM
both of you are wrong. the colder than normal winter in the north caused companies to refine the light sweet crude into heating oil for a longer period than usual. the switchover back to gasoline refining thus happened much later. the reserves,thus, are very low right now and will probably take about 90 days to rebuild! before you begin to insult someone for a lack of education, do some research. that way you may actually know what you are talking about.
oh, and in case your are curious, mobil and exxon did in fact report huge profits, but there is a lag time between when you buy gas and the time the bean-counters total it all up!
oh, and i case you are curious part 2!-- i work for mobil as one of those bean counters, so my argument does hold water!
love ya-mean it!
check your facts smartyTJeanloz
Apr 28, 2001 5:28 PM
I wrote my thesis on it. Want a copy? It's pretty well documented, and it landed me a job with the top investment bank in the energy sector.
And what part didn't you understand?TJeanloz
Apr 28, 2001 5:51 PM
"Both of you are wrong."

My points were: Weakness on the supply side have left not enough supply to meet demand, despite having refineries running at or over capacity- you seem to support that.

Oil Companies are making huge profits- Texaco beat the nuts off their expected number last week. You agree, with corroboration from ExxonMobil.

So, what did I say that you don't agree with?
And what part didn't you understand?merckx56
May 1, 2001 9:42 AM
i agree with your economic overview of the situation. i look at those numbers everyday. i am also very proud that you wrote your thesis on it! good for you! i don't agree with the fact that you go around calling people idiots for their beliefs and/or opinions. you may be a very learned individual but there is always someone who is smarter or someone that will take offense to being called a name and beat your ass on the spot! i have a b.s. in accounting, a mibs from the university of south carolina(the #1 school in the country for the program!) and a j.d. from usc school of law, but you know what that and 35 cents gets me? a stamp! be a bit more humble and realize that someone, someday will take that large stick you swing and beat you with it! this is a cycling message board, not an economic discussion of the guns and butter theory!
Let me understand,Waylon Smithers
Apr 27, 2001 6:02 AM
When OPEC nations convenes to cut or restrict production, are they not doing so to manipulate prices?

Prices are rising NOW (as every year at this time) in ANTICIPATION of the nothern hemisperes COMING summer vacation driving. Are not prices being manipulated?

Are you saying this is a demand only situation? No supply-side strategy?
Exactly,TJeanloz
Apr 27, 2001 6:46 AM
As I will graduate next week with a Masters degree in economics, and will be employed in the energy sector thereafter, I think I know the facts.

Supply in the oil industry is largely fixed, not by OPEC but by production constraints within the domestic oil refining market. OPEC could remove all their production constraints and gas prices would not be affected. As it stands, we are running our refineries at about 97% capacity, with somewhere around 94% being considered "full capacity" (refineries need some down time for maintenence etc, thus we can never reach 100% capacity.)

The real problem with gasoline prices is that the demand for fuel is highly inelastic- at this point, we don't really care what the price is, we just want gasoline. We are in the long run with the oil market- supply is essentially fixed, and the only thing driving price is demand.
youre a bit harshishmael
Apr 27, 2001 7:25 AM
does that mean the thousands of people who have been passing this are idiots..
I think so,TJeanloz
Apr 27, 2001 7:41 AM
I'm willing to call anybody who believes this scheme will work an idiot. I think that's fair.
This isn't Europe Moron!!!!!!!Jonathan
Apr 27, 2001 9:41 AM
If gas rose to $5.00 a gallon our economy would collapse.

They can pull it off there because Eurpean countries have a public transportation system, unlike the U.S. We are a MUCH LARGER COUNTRY and need cars to get around. It would cost TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS of dollars to have effective national public transportation in this country.

Your thinking is so flawed that it makes me angry, and I dont even know you. Funny (sacry) thing is we almost elected a president with the exact same ideals as you. Dont reply to this until you learn some things, I will not reply to thoughtless bumblings, I have already wasted enough time.
This isn't Europe Moron!!!!!!!muncher
Apr 27, 2001 9:50 AM
Good point but, UK - public transportation system! Hehohohohohohhahahahahahahhehehehehehehhohohohohoho - stoppit!

Why do you think we pay $5 for gas? You try paying for/getting any public transport...
We will pay $5 a gallon,TJeanloz
Apr 27, 2001 4:53 PM
There is no repealing the laws of supply and demand, and there will be a point at which oil is worth $5 a gallon or more. As any commodity becomes scarcer, the price will go up. I will count on the ingenuity of the human spirit to find an affordable, safe replacement.
S.I. Hayakawa and high gas pricesmike mcmahon
Apr 27, 2001 5:01 PM
Hayakawa was a Linguistics professor and university president who became a U.S. Senator from CA in the 70s. One of his more controversial proposals during the energy crisis was to raise fuel prices to a point where it was too expensive for the poor, thereby forcing them to use public transit and leaving more fuel supplies for those who could afford it. As I recall, he lasted only one term.
That's interesting...TJeanloz
Apr 28, 2001 5:53 PM
I had a public policy seminar this semester where we discussed policies just like that one- that is, policies that make sense and would lead to efficient outcomes, but are politically unpalatable. That particular policy would make sense in areas with strong public transit- but the words "strong public transit" don't exactly describe the United States. And actually, when you do the analysis, that is a lot of the thinking behind the European tax structure.
if i had my waypeloton
May 1, 2001 9:52 AM
Gas prices of five bucks a gallon would be real nice. Force everyone to take public transportation. Good idea. What about people who live in rural areas where there is no public transportation available? Not everyone lives in the city and has that option. For some people cars are the only way to get anywhere. I lived 40 miles from the closest real grocery store once. It would have been real nice if it cost me $20 in gas just to get food.
you ARE the weakest linkjohn de
Apr 26, 2001 5:33 PM
GOODBYE!
You're a pigheaded, nonsensical goon, John De/Ishmael.boy nigel
Apr 26, 2001 6:14 PM
I'm not sure what your problem is, but you're very much the troubled child of our board. This shouldn't be taken in a positive way. You seem to require such attention that even very negative attention works to stroke your simple and fragile ego.

No one wants to hear your views about ANYTHING, and your dual personality is ludicrous and pathetic beyond words.

Get lost. You're all alone here.
your words sound pretentious and dont actually make senseishmael
Apr 26, 2001 6:23 PM
if my ego is so fragile why do i bother...you think i wouldve been to insulted to stay..there is no stroking going on here...my dual personality is a joke and all jokes are ludicrous and pathetic, but some of us dont see things as a joke and they become more so
Jokes are supposed to be funny to OTHERS...boy nigel
Apr 26, 2001 7:01 PM
that's why people tell them to other people. A joke isn't a joke if it's only funny to you and only you. My words sound "pretentious"? You don't understand the word "goon," perhaps.

We can't understand why you even bother getting on the board just to try to piss people off. No one finds your "jokes" funny; just pathetic and ludicrous. And no, all jokes aren't pathetic and ludicrous.
Jokes are supposed to be funny to OTHERS...ishmael
Apr 26, 2001 7:34 PM
id say there is a touch of pathetic and ludicrous in jokes, if you dont see it that way, i dont know what you see them as...i didnt ask you to get pissed off you did it all by yourself...who said anything about not understanding goon, i didnt say you used big words i said you sounded pretentious....if i make one person laugh (me) its all worth it...the sad thing is i didnt make a bad joke, i just passed on something loosely to do with road biking, and look at all the stink...seems like you all have alot of pent up anger..im having trouble convincing myself that road biker stereotypes arent true
A new board record?mike mcmahon
Apr 26, 2001 5:39 PM
Four posts in one thread, all from the same person. Greg should set up an "ishmael/john de" board so that our friend can keep himself occupied by posting and responding to his own posts.
I believe the technical term isCliff Oates
Apr 26, 2001 5:57 PM
Attention Whore. I think our young whatever ought to be concentrating on his education and physical fitness. This forum can succeed, flourish even, with limited participation on his part.
what educationishmael
Apr 26, 2001 6:33 PM
the fitness is fine..the education, im not sure if you have any grounds for questioning....im sure we can find alot of folks who believe this method of bringing down gas prices works...but you would know all about that it seems..i didnt come up with the idea, just spreading it...what a bunch of conservative, unimaginative, grumpy old farts...stick to thinking about bikes
attention whore - Leykis 101 student here too NMMade in Taiwan
Apr 26, 2001 7:24 PM
NM
thats 3 dumb asssishmael
Apr 26, 2001 6:19 PM
do you need to know more
re: i dont know if this is good for bikersLarry Meade
Apr 26, 2001 6:54 PM
Judging by the regular garbage that is being put forth by young john de/Ishmael, I am making a motion that all of the regulars ignore his posts and refuse to engage him in discussion from here on out. We have seen similar "personalities" like this in the past and this was the only way to get rid of them. If he is ignored, he will get bored and go away. This will be the last time you will see my name attached to a post started by the aforementioned person.

Larry
PS Don't bother to reply/insult/engage me on this post john de/Ishmael. I will not reply as you no longer exist.
just keep scrolling if your a touchy guyishmael
Apr 26, 2001 7:26 PM
when i ride my bike its on the road....i feel that road riders are more connected to the road than anyone else out there, the drivers just try to get from a to b on it but we know every bump..this post has to do with roads and the cars that drive on them..it also has to do with politics and economics..thats all it has to do with...if those topics or my oppinion on them rubs you all the wrong way i see that as something you'll all have to get over...
what i think is great about chat rooms (this is the only one ive been to) they allow people to be more free in their expression, i dont really have to worry about offending any of you...therefore what you or i really feel comes out and we can get past all the pleasantries and see whats underneath...when this happends more conflicts seem to happend understandably, but also the benefits of conflict go along with that...as i see it some people just dont communicate well when there is conflict..
as far as trying to just avoid me and hope ill go away...ill never go away, i dont say that out of spite..if its not me someone else will bother you..why not just except that there are other people out there that are very different than you....this is a road bike chat room, and that means the board is already pretty homoginous...road bikers are already known for being arrogant conservative snobs(its the stereotype)...the more diversity the better...if you want to avoid me thats fine and cudos to you, i do the same to people i dont like..but if you say rude things your gunna get them back...besides im just a punk ass kid without an education so why bother,i didnt ask any of you to respond anyway
re: i dont know if this is good for bikersSkip
Apr 26, 2001 7:46 PM
Our "regular" gas has been $2.02 - $2.10 (some stations even higher) for over a year already. Contrary to what CNN reports as to who has the highest gas prices, they are wrong (they never seem to include Hawaii in the union). We have always had the highest prices/gal. here in Hawaii. When the mainland's ave. was $1.00 - $1.20/gal. ours was $1.80+. We have never been at or below, the highest price any where on the mainland.
Hey MJ: end of discussion!Honest roadie
Apr 27, 2001 3:42 PM
MJ:Who cares about how much you have to pay? Nobody. End of discussion. You are a communist and nobody wants to hear about your whiney little problems. end of discussion.
re: i dont know if this is good for bikersJames
Apr 26, 2001 8:39 PM
Do road bikes run on gas? Lets talk about the price of energy bars.
Good ideatommyb
Apr 26, 2001 8:47 PM
The first twelve times I got this messge in my e-mail, I thought that it was just more internet junk mail. But now that's it's been endorsed on roadbikereview.com, I guess I'll have to drive out of my way to buy gas from another supplier. That'll bring the evil giants to their knees.
When consumers collude...Bruno S
Apr 26, 2001 9:44 PM
If all consumer would collude and stop buying gas from one oil company it would be forced to lower its prices to sell gas. Immediatly after the prices are lowered another company is targeted by the consumers. This continues until the prices are the lowest they can be. Seems logical but it would imposible to implement.
re: i dont know if this is good for bikers--Urban Legendnodima
Apr 27, 2001 3:35 AM
See http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/petition/gasout.htm

This is an urban legend...

Nodima
i just post the stuffishmael
Apr 27, 2001 7:23 AM
your response was educational..ill pass it on..i though it maybe was a good thing but it seems to be to simple to boycott one ore two companies...ill go back to sucking it up and letting someone else rule my world.
john de/ishmael = Bowl of NoodlesI GOT IT!
Apr 27, 2001 4:49 AM
nm
That's been around for months: BTW, gas is $2.79 in SFCory
Apr 27, 2001 7:40 AM
This has been around for quite awhile...I wrote a related newspaper column that's in the Reno Gazette-Journal today (www.rgj.com/news2/stories/opinion/988491061.html, if anybody's interested). Gas is in the $1.70-$1.90 range in northern Nevada, over $2 at Shell stations, and I saw a TV story last night that showed a Bay area station charging $2.39, $2.59 and $2.79 for the three grades. The drivers we've interviewed so far say it's not going to change their habits...
I sort of wonder, though. My car gets about 27 mpg, and on a long road trip last week, I realized gas was costing me 60 bucks a day...
re: i dont know if this is good for bikersBeeman
Apr 27, 2001 9:58 AM
Our parents say "oh, I remember when gas cost...." Well gas is still cheaper now than it was when adjusted for inflation. Exxon just reported an increas in profits of 44% that was plastered all over the media. Well their profit margin is only 6.9% which means that they are still well below there historic levels of profitablility. Did the media report on Exxon's losses when gas was at $.90 per gallon 3 years ago....NO! The answer is not to boycott oil companies.

The law of supply and demand will work its magic over time. The price of gas will get to a level where you will have to sell your gas guzzling SUV and buy a realistic vehicle. It is the selfish "me-first" US consumer who is responsible for the high cost of gas. If every american bought a car with an increased fuel efficiency of just 1 mile per gallon this who problem would be resolved. What do you say, how about 16 instead of 15 miles
per gallon? Everyone should just ride bikes!