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Apr 11, 2001 7:25 AM
Let's face it. Americans are being held "HOSTAGE" in Mainland China. The Chinese Government has the audacity to demand an apology for an incident that happened over international airspace! The way I see it the Chinese chase plane got too close and clipped the American surveillance plane almost causing a catastrophic accident. It is the evil Chinese commies that should apologise! F**K them!!! Don't buy "Made in China" until they let the American hostages free! Even then, think about what you're supporting when you do.

*Late breaking news:
blow it off ------> not bike related propagandacyclopathic
Apr 11, 2001 7:35 AM
moron read newspaper or turn on radio
blow it off ------> not bike related propagandaKen
Apr 11, 2001 8:41 AM
I thought the "General" catagory in the roadbike messageboards meant any and all things connected to roadbikes including "news". Sorry if my public display of sympathy for people being held against their will offended you. You are clearly a human being of superior qualities.
well if got dragged into itcyclopathic
Apr 11, 2001 10:31 AM
guys are lucky they coming back so fast. remember Powers? he spend 10 years in Soviet prison. just for wondering in USSR air space. Obvious it wasn't true and he was held as hostage. by evil emeror Zorg.

If you REALLY wanna boycott China (which we have deficit 2.5 times of Japan) dont buy anything from stors dealing with China: Wallmart, Kmart, etc. Just be aware that THERE'S no store in US which doesnt sell at least something made in China, even patriotic souvenirs sold in National Archive are made in China.
blow it off ------> not bike related propagandaWuwa
Apr 11, 2001 11:55 AM
Speaking of superior qualities, I hope you are true to your own convictions and boycott any country that holds people against their will (which would include the United States). There is a difference between philanthropy and mere patriotism.
Apr 11, 2001 12:10 PM
If there are hostages being held by the American Government please name them. Also please post your real name and tell us how we can find you to confirm your information.
Apr 11, 2001 8:10 PM
How about the hundreds of thousands of people rotting in federal prison for drug related offenses? Don't forget the kids that they were forced to abandon.
Apr 12, 2001 3:08 AM
Take Elian Gonzalez for instance. What exactly is the justification behind keeping a kid away from his dad and relatives for such a long period of time, simply because his mother made an ill-fated decision? I believe he was used as a political pawn just as the crew in China was being held as leverage to extract an apology from the US.
blow it off ------> not bike related propagandatf
Apr 11, 2001 10:58 AM
Poor Ken, do you believe in everything the US media tells you?

Those guys are spies and their job was to steal information from other countries. They knew better than anyone the day they took their job that they risk being caught. What the f*ck do you think they were doing over the South China Sea? Just cruising along and enjoying the scenary? Why were they eager to destroy information in the plane when they landed? And the poor Chinese guy is dead. They killed him, intentionally or not.

Use your brain, Ken!

Also what is the point of boycotting? Out of the retail price of a China made bike product, the shop takes 40%, US wholesaler takes 15%, the US distributor gets 15%, the US government takes 4% of customs duty, the US run shipping company makes 3%. The Chinese get only a fraction of the price you pay.
blow it off ------> not bike related propagandaKen
Apr 11, 2001 11:27 AM
Admit it you work for Peking. You're bought and paid for. They even gave you a "Swallow Bike". (Chinese local brand)
You can see my bike in the Gallery, the Mapei Colnago Dream+...Threefire
Apr 11, 2001 3:04 PM
I guess I work for Rome, then...

But seriously, suppose you are a judge, do you want to make a judgment before you hear both sides of a dispute?

Every citizen would like to believe his country is the strongest and most right. In the case of the US, the former is true, but the latter?
Apr 11, 2001 7:36 AM
It's going to turn out OK. BTW, "international airspace" is not exactly the same thing as the 12(?)-mile coastal buffer zone for seagoing vessels. If a Chinese or Russian airplane came within 100 miles of our coastline, you can be assured that they'd be buzzed by us too.

Anyway, I don't think it'll be too difficult to boycott bike parts from mainland China - just stay out of Target and Walmart and you'll be safe.
Apr 11, 2001 7:50 AM
Great idea. While you're in a boycotting frame of mind, why not boycott all US made bike parts in protest at the US government's decision not to ratify the Kyoto accord on greenhouse gases.
Apr 11, 2001 8:29 AM
Because I support the US governments positions on greenhouse gas emmision.
Apr 11, 2001 8:49 AM
I guess you're one of these people whose country can do no wrong. If people started boycotting the US for every shitty thing we've done to other countries, we'd be the only ones buying our own products. Look in the mirror before you start criticizing others.
Apr 11, 2001 1:54 PM
What? OK, who's more of a patriot: The dolt who says "It's America! Love it or leave it!" or the guy who says "Hey, we've got a problem here that we have to do something about."?

Do you ride your bike outdoors? Do you want your children to enjoy an outdoors as well? Shoudn't we do *something* to correct our blatant ignorance of the problem we are creating?
What, boycot Airborne?Cliff Oates
Apr 11, 2001 7:59 AM
They're being released, the announcement was made several hours ago and I read a story from Reuters on the subject. Here's the AP version:
Apr 11, 2001 8:58 AM
Just cancelled my Airborne and ordered a Legend Ti....just in time!!
I already did...bike_junkie
Apr 11, 2001 9:23 AM
before any of this spy plane business happened.
Apr 11, 2001 9:23 AM
Looks like you are taking a lot for your stance on an issue but I have to say I agree with you. I have made an effort to boycot as many products as possible from China.
READ THIS!!! READ THIS!!!Threefire
Apr 11, 2001 10:23 AM
The truth of the matter is a SPY plane landed in a Chinese military base after collision over the SOUTH CHINA SEA! These guys are spies and they are caught. It's funny you would even think they are taken as hostages. Just imagine a burglar falling off your balcony into your yard.

For details see:
Hey Threefire!Ken
Apr 11, 2001 11:36 AM
Do you know what international airspace is?
That link is so full of . . .LAIrish
Apr 11, 2001 1:25 PM
misinformation. One problem with the internet is that any wacko can hire a web designer, call himself an "institute" and then be held up by less than stellar thinkers as some sort of expert source. Excuse me, the the chinese opium wars were where Western Powers (including the US) "used miltary force to addict chinese so there would be customers for opium"? This guy is just plain addled.
Problem with the "Boycott Logic"MRD
Apr 11, 2001 10:27 AM
First I neither am for or against the boycotting of a product. that is a personal decision.

However, here are some points that should be considered. Why doesn't anyone on the board boycott french companies for the way Lance Armstrong was persecuted by the french media. You know half of france violently hates Americans. Why not boycott Look and all the other French Companies. No more Mouton Rothchilds for you!

Let's Boycott German products for the obvious reasons--we fought 2 wars against them. No more conti's.

Let's boycott Japanese products. We fought a war against them too. No more shimano!

Let's boycott Taiwanese products, because many of their businesses are tied to mainland china.

Let's boycott England, because we fought a war against them in the 1700's and their imperialistic ways of the past in Africa and Asia was brutal by any standards.

Let's no forget whose side Italy was on during world war two. No more campy or pegoretti.

Forget Starbucks coffee, because of the way they keep slavery alive in coffee bean producing countries, and for running mom and pop coffee shops out of business.

Forget the microsoft OS that almost all of us are using--better switch to Linux.


If you go back into history, someone has done something to you or your ancestors to to someone else that was vile. What products are left?

You're supporting one dictator or violator of rights one way or another. Indeed, the very roads we ride on were not always built using the most honorable methods.

I think it is best to leave your philosophy out of cycling. Yes this is the "general" board and you have every right to express your opinions. But they if you want to avoid being hipocritical, you need to look a little deeper and straighten everything out.

Ok, enough politics. back to cycling and the beauty of the sport.

Problem with the "Boycott Logic"Dan BB
Apr 11, 2001 10:42 AM
No problem...Italian is the way to go!!
as long ascyclopathic
Apr 11, 2001 10:55 AM
it's got french wheels/tires ;o)
Problem with the "Boycott Logic"Aer Jer
Apr 11, 2001 11:55 AM
What?? No more campy or shimano??? Let's see, where did I put that old Suntour stuff?
Excuse MeKen
Apr 11, 2001 12:05 PM
My original intention was to garner support for the men and women who are at the front lines in defending our way of life not only for us Americans but for the people of the world who have the same desires and beliefs . In particular for those Americans that are still being held against their will (soon to be freed) I chose to use this bicycle forum to seek such support. I don't know what the dollar amount of imported bikes and bike parts from China is per annum but, if our threat of boycot of these import items was effective I'm sure it would have gotten their attention.

If you have any problems with this position then take it easy MRD, go for a ride on your bike. It's OK. I mean it. No philosophising intended.
I understandMRD
Apr 11, 2001 3:24 PM
I too support our men and women who are being held hostage. It's just that boycotting isn't the way to protest.

Take this hypothetical situation: How would you feel if say a german plane was shot down accidentally by US forces, and the retaliation of German citizens was to boycott the products a company you owned or worked at. You had nothing to do with it. You just want to work and feed your family. This is a political problem, and the retaliation, if one should even exist, should be from our political system.

If you carry out your "support for men and women" through boycotts, you'd have to, by your own beliefs, boycott everything related to cycling. So, i just feel like your heart is in the right place, but your actions are a bit misguided and misaligned with your intentions.

I'm with you on the issue of supporting our servicepeople. If you read your original post, however, you're not really expressing support as much as retaliation. That is misguided, in my opinion. But of course you can do it if you like. I just feel there are more constructive ways of dealing with such issues, and that there are some things you need to think about when you do take such actions. No big deal.

Enjoy your riding!!


PS by the way, to another poster, SunTour is also japanese. It's gone too. I guess we have to walk naked and barefoot and climb back up into the trees :) ( I'm only joking, Ken.)

Now, let's get back to Shimano vs Campy wars--Oh yeah!!
But I like Shimano! What?E3
Apr 11, 2001 11:52 AM
Oh. Never mind.
Rule 1: Don't land in the country you're spying on (nm)Erik W
Apr 11, 2001 3:13 PM
Yes! Boycott until...UH....Never Mind (NM)MeDotOrg
Apr 11, 2001 5:00 PM
Apr 11, 2001 6:11 PM
Besides, Made in Japan, Taiwan, Italy and Canada are much better parts too!!!!
Radio Free Dirt!!!
get even at the "all you can eat " buffet (NM)nick the dart
Apr 11, 2001 7:01 PM
what is your objectivejohn de
Apr 11, 2001 7:17 PM
who used the word philanthropy on here..i dont know what they are talking about but its an incorrect usage....ken, you even use the word commies, its as if you were time warped from 20 or so years ago...i kind of agree with you though in that we should put our dollars where are politics are but thats hard to do....and that may only further distance a superpower which we should try to strengthen ties with, we cant just avoid them of now the people are back and they still have the plane, let them keep it for all i care, let them be the winners of a little battle....dont take it personally, its politics, you have to keep cool..we are trying to build relations, dont look for trouble or you'll get me in it
I know what never needs oilingTom
Apr 12, 2001 6:13 AM
The hinge on the door marked Jingoism. A little puff of air and open it swings, everytime.