|No more stolen bikes from this guy!||drew|
Apr 6, 2001 10:17 AM
|Gotta love it!
Apr 6, 2001 10:21 AM
|1. There is a God
2. The thief's family will sue the City for the bus running over him
|don't forget the all-important third comment||ET|
Apr 6, 2001 10:52 AM
|The thief's family will win the suit (or, more likely, settle for megabucks).
I recall a case several years ago in the same good ol' NYC where a somewhat demented man attempting suicide threw himself onto the tracks right in front of an oncoming subway train, severing both his legs. His family sued, and the City settled out of court, because it figured the risks of it losing the case and having to pay out much more were just too great to bear. How does that go again? "Risk no more than you are willing to lose." :-)
|Strange to hear you take such a lofty position on this....||curtiso|
Apr 6, 2001 1:21 PM
|considering what you do for a living, Doug. After all, the family won't sue the city alone, will they? In fact, I would dare say that some decent, hard-working, honorable attorney has already made contact with the family, suggesting exactly that! Not out of some sense of outrage, not in search of justice....simply out of greed, out of lust for those deep pockets.
The "litigation lottery" didn't spring up in this country on it's own; we are beseiged by ridiculous lawsuits and your profession needs to accept some blame for it and begin to offer solutions.
|ok, we are getting side tracked here, but...||Dog|
Apr 6, 2001 3:47 PM
|The legal profession bears some blame, but you know what? There are no high verdicts without ordinary people sitting on juries mandating the awards. The lawyers can only suggest to the juries what to award. It's up to the group of them to approve it. Certainly you are not suggesting the people who make up juries are mindless drones who can be so easily influenced by the lawyers, but only the plaintiffs' lawyers? Why do they not listen so well to the defense lawyers?
|ok, we are getting side tracked here, but...||tr|
Apr 6, 2001 3:57 PM
|Doug, i am with you man (really, i always enjoy your messages), but it is true that alot of reasonable people are waived out of selection for other reasons (sometimes justified, sometimes not)|
Apr 7, 2001 7:58 PM
|I don't know what God you worship Doug but your statement is truely obscene and anti-Christian in every sense.
I am being sincere when I say that your statement completely changes how I have come to regard you as a man.
I am not flaming you but I will not read another one of your posts.
Apr 9, 2001 10:59 AM
|First, the statement was an off-the-cuff sentiment. Second, I think you have read too much into it. Certainly, we each have thought of circumstances wherein gross-injustice has been made somewhat less troubling through some additional occurrence. Bike theft is a plaguing problem, as is touches us on an emotional as well as practical level. More generally, crime is out of control in this country. Nothing we do seems to help. We each, in our own ways, are exasperated.
I never said that the thief deserved the death penalty, nor that I would have even wished death upon him. In fact, I am entirely against the death penalty. It's my belief that God has taught us that killing is wrong, so we should not be doing it unless there absolutely is no alternative - self-defense, defense of the innocent, etc. There is no reason whatsoever for the death penalty in a society that has the ability to lock dangerous people away for life. Besides, I've seen first hand the imperfections of the legal system. I know that police officers, prosecutors, judges, and juries can be wrong, even where they believed they were certain. I never said that I would have exacted the penalty. This guy did it to himself.
But, there is a deeper issue that we may as well confront. If you believe that God plays a role in our daily lives, and causes events to happen or not happen, then you might also believe that He takes an active role in dispensing justice, even if on a scale or in a way we cannot understand. I don't know. But, if you believe this, my statement was justified, even if phrased rather crassly. If you do not believe this, but rather believe that we purely create our own destinies based upon human choices, and to a degree chance, then my statement makes no sense.
The phrase "There is a God" is usually reserved for those times when we are delighted with an outcome, when we can genuinely and in all respects approve of what happened, e.g., a plane crashes and everyone survives. Yet, can it also not apply when we receive a glimmer of hope that pervasive injustice in our world is ever so slightly corrected, especially as here, where no other human caused the outcome?
|re: No more stolen bikes from this guy!||Underdog|
Apr 6, 2001 10:27 AM
|You gotta love a happy ending!|
|re: No more stolen bikes from this guy!||drew|
Apr 6, 2001 10:29 AM
|"He fell off and got hit by the bus, but the bike was fine," a police source said.....
Thank goodness for the bike!
|From one who's been ripped off...||Kristin|
Apr 6, 2001 10:47 AM
|I know I'm gonna get attacked for this, but man ALIVE! This is sad. Stealing is wrong, but it's disturbing to see others gloating over this guys death! I'm sure someone out there is hurting over this. He was a person--even if he was wrong. I feel sad about this story on many levels and would never wish ill on the person who stole my Trek.|
|you are right, of course||Dog|
Apr 6, 2001 10:53 AM
|No one 'caused' this guy's death, it appears, other than himself. But, it does appeal to some sort of feeling of divine justice, despite the political incorrectness of the thoughts. What's done is done, and there is no one to blame. I do feel badly for gloating in this guy's death, but he did it to himself, and in the process of fleeing during the commission of a crime. Hard to feel sorry for him.
Apr 6, 2001 10:53 AM
|I second that. Capital punishment? For bicycle theft? (For anything, in fact). This is a tragedy, not a cause for celebration.|
|Not capital punishment, natural selection.||J.S.|
Apr 6, 2001 11:52 AM
|back in time, when being an idiot meant you didn't live long enough to breed the human race evolved, now as we feel the need to save stupid people from themselves and even reward them for their idiocy the human race will devolve. It's downhill from here...........|
Apr 6, 2001 1:32 PM
|It was tragic that a person died stealing a bike but you have to remember that Darwinism does come into play. It's cruel but some people are just rabbits running back and forth across the road waiting for that semi of life to squish them. In this case it literaly happened. This guy would have found a dumb way to kill himself eventually. Born to lose I guess.|
|I would wish him ill, but not death (nm)||ET|
Apr 6, 2001 10:56 AM
|wish it. or, don't. matters not. it's all about karma. (nm)||Haiku d'état|
Apr 6, 2001 11:30 AM
|Yep! Karma's gonna get ya.(nm)||J.S.|
Apr 6, 2001 11:45 AM
|re: No more stolen bikes from this guy!||tommyb|
Apr 6, 2001 11:05 AM
|To me, it is sad that a man died. What is equally sad is that a teenager who had the moral vacuum to try to steal the bike from the scene of this tragedy walks away with no negative reinforcement. No charges pressed, and I'm sure he'll get lots of laughs around the street corner tonight. I guarantee that one will steal again. And given that he viewed an unfortunate death as an opportunity for his own illicit gain, I fear that his destiny may be far worse than simple thievery.|
|Yes, love it! The real tragedy...||E3|
Apr 6, 2001 12:49 PM
|...is that there are people like this on the planet. Loved or not, people like him are a drain on the rest of society. It's a tragedy that you have to use heavy chain to lock up your bikes when you leave'em unattended for 30 seconds.
Why in hell should I feel remorse for this guy? Because he's a victim, right? Everyone who screws up these days is a victim of something. No way, he made a choice to steal a bike (probably the umpteenth thing he's stolen) and, whether or not the punishment fit, he paid for his crime.
Had he been born in another era or in a tribal society, he would have been flayed, torched, maimed, banished, etc. So, maybe in the ultimate scheme, he got off pretty easy.
This is no different than the would-be thief whose bones were recently found in a chimney he was trying to use to enter a building. Poor guy, hee-hee.
May karma catch up with the little fart who re-stole the bike.....
|Yes, love it! The real tragedy...||Jofa|
Apr 6, 2001 4:01 PM
|I've always been inclined to think that cyclists have- in general- tolerant, considerate, and reflective dispositions; something to do with the process of cycling- quiet, efficient, demanding- and the adverse conditions in which we do it. This post has reminded me that in trying to generalise about the attitudes of people who share an interest, I am in error.
"A drain on society?" The actions of any member of a society are ultimately the responsibility of the whole, otherwise there is no society. All we know about this person, apart from the sad fact that he is no longer one, is that he stole a bicycle. I cannot consider it tragic that there are "people like this on the planet" as I don't know what he was like. And surely nobody could consider it a "tragedy" that the structures of our societies (large spreads of wealth,subsequent ghetto-isation of impoverished areas) force us to lock our bikes when we leave them; that is mildly inconvenient, and frankly, the least of our worries.
You should feel remorse for this guy, as for any other person who was involved in an accident and subsequently died. We have elected courts to determine culpability and punishment for crimes, which goes some way to ensure consistency. How you know that this person stole before, I have no idea, though this is irrelevant anyway. You clearly have some objection to the term "victim", as though it alludes to some weak liberal agenda; however I didn't notice anybody else use it in any posts, until now: Setting up tin cans to shoot down?
Societies certainly have existed- and still exist- in which minor crimes are met with extraordinarily unpleasant punishment. Most civilised societies have agreed that this responses are inhumane, morally unacceptable, and ineffective. However, I don't quite see how death can be described as "getting off pretty easy".
I appreciate that this thread has drifted off topic, but I am tired of seeing bigoted vigilante-ism dressed up as rational thinking. I suggest that you continue your research into Buddhist philosophy, maybe you'll take it easier on the next kid who steals a cookie from your window.
|Ahhh, just the sort of reply I was fishin' for! nm||E3|
Apr 6, 2001 4:55 PM
|Glad to have helped out (nm)||Jofa|
Apr 7, 2001 3:56 AM
Apr 6, 2001 1:09 PM
|ofcourse he was a nice guy at heart||john de|
Apr 6, 2001 1:18 PM
|they always say that after they are dead...|
|ofcourse he was a nice guy at heart||mike mcmahon|
Apr 6, 2001 1:39 PM
|I've always read that comment as code for "he was a real jackass." If a nice guy dies, people say "he was a nice guy." When a jackass dies, people say "he was a nice guy at heart." I guess it means he was a nice guy trapped in a jerk's body.|
|Ya Gotta Luv it When Justice is Swift and Severe (nm)||grz mnky|
Apr 6, 2001 3:33 PM