|&@(# stuck lockring!||Humma Hah|
Jul 28, 2003 5:58 AM
|The Paramount popped a spoke on Friday. Close inspection suggests its time for a rebuild of the rear wheel (I was already planning to do the front, and have a pair of new rims and some I-tallian spokes).
The rear hub is a flip-flop Suntour with fixed-type threading on each side. When I got it, it was fixed on both sides. I easily removed the lockring and track cog on one side, and installed a freewheel, leaving the 17T track cog in place on the other side. To remove and install spokes, I need to pull both cogs.
The freewheel came off with a freewheel puller, but my LBS does not sell a proper tool for the lockring, and it a little buggered at this point so I don't know if one would work. I've tried everything, even resorting to driving it with a hammer and screwdriver, and it won't budge. It has soaked in Liquid Wrench, acetone, motor oil/mineral spirits, and been heated with a propane torch.
I know I am turning it the right way (clockwise) because I've checked against the lockring for the other side.
Any ideas about freeing this thing up?
|re: &@(# stuck lockring!||rwbadley|
Jul 28, 2003 6:31 AM
|Maybe a big set of channel locks? Vice grips? Maybe it's teasing you and really comes off counterclockwise?|
|If all else fails......||dzrider|
Jul 28, 2003 7:45 AM
|Can you file 2 flat edges on the lock ring, clamp it in a vice, and turn the wheel?|
Jul 28, 2003 8:05 AM
|The cog threads on clockwise. The lockring turns the other way, counter-clockwise. If it's a flip/flop, one side would be for a freewheel. Maybe somebody had a track cog and a BB lockring on that side. But the true fixed side would have 2 opposite threads, that's how it "locks".|
|I'm removing it ...||Humma Hah|
Jul 28, 2003 8:17 AM
|The cog itself turn on clockwise, off counterclockwise. The lockring is the reverse of that, so should come off when turned clockwise. The cog should tighten when the chain pulls forward, and the lockring should tighten when the chain experiences backpedaling forces.
Brain HURT! But I've played with the other lockring on the other side, and that's how it works. Clockwise takes it off. Or should.
This particular hub is rigged for a fixed cog and lockring on either side (although it carries a freewheel with no problem).
|sorry 'bout that||desmo|
Jul 28, 2003 8:35 AM
|Should have finished my first cup before ansewring that. Yer spinning the right way.
Maybe some heat will help. If the lockring is steel, the different expansion rates may break its' bond to the alloy hub. I'd strip the hub and clean out all the grease then take a propane torch to the cog. I would not go nuts here though. I'm guessing there was some locktight involved in the instalation. Hopefully it was blue. Good luck.
|Yeah -- that's why the acetone ...||Humma Hah|
Jul 28, 2003 8:40 AM
|I suspected locktite (at this point, I suspect RED locktite), which is supposed to soften with acetone, provided it can REACH the stuff.
I haven't pulled the bearings yet ... that actually might relax the hub a little. I may have some dry ice on Thursday ... maybe freezing the hub while heating the lockring and cog will break the sumbitch loose.
|put the lockring tool in a vise and use the wheel as a lever nm||JS Haiku Shop|
Jul 28, 2003 9:23 AM
|(but first buy the lockring tool). nm.||Steve_0|
Jul 28, 2003 10:59 AM
|What fits these things?||Humma Hah|
Jul 28, 2003 11:43 AM
|The lockring has two notches. My LBS (Performance) did not have a tool to fit it. We tried the adjustable "lockring pliers" as illustrated for $60 in Sheldon Brown's website .. not strong enough and the tabs turn. I bought an $11 hook spanner, but it doesn't have the guts to remove this ring, either.
Park show FR-2 and -3 tools with two notches, but I can't tell by looking if either will fit a fixie lockring. I own an FR-6 for my freewheels, which works beautifully in a vise as described above, but it has 4 notches. Even Sheldon Brown's website does not show a comparable tool for use in a vise. Performance did not have the -2 and -3 to try out ... the mechanic did have some odd tool in his set that had two tabs, but it was way too small.
This reminds me of when I was looking for the correct spanner to use with 1-piece cranks to correctly adjust the bearing tension (a two-slotted nut and a hex jamnut). A day of searching every LBS in San Diego produced nothing but blank stares. Every wrench in town had always done it just as I always had ... stick a screwdriver in the slot and shove.
|What fits these things?||Steve_0|
Jul 29, 2003 8:11 AM
|you need a hook spanner.
Park has a combo headset/spanner. Also sometimes available at plumbing supply stores.
|We tried both ...||Humma Hah|
Jul 29, 2003 8:39 AM
|I bought the hook spanner, and there's no way that thing is ever gonna budge this ring ... it is gonna take a hardened steel tool with two tangs and a huge amount of leverage.
The shop's $60 adjustable spanner would not hold its adjustable tangs under load.
I may try grinding the extra tangs off a PR-6, clamping it in a vise, and turning the wheel, but this ring is pretty buggered at this point. It may even have to be cracked off by application of a cold chisel, or ground off with a diamond burr and a moto-tool.
I get the impression, from the tools available, that these things are NOT supposed to be NEARLY this stubborn.
Jul 29, 2003 8:56 AM
|hardned steel, 6 feet of pipe and some duct-tape oughta do it.
I'd venture your guess on loctite correct; shouldnt be that stubborn. If you're gonna start cutting, be careful not to hurt the threads (if you're planning on replacing the lockring, anyway).
|e-mail sheldon this thread and let us know the answer (nm)||JS Haiku Shop|
Jul 29, 2003 9:07 AM
|Pro Link chain lube||buffalosorrow|
Jul 28, 2003 11:33 AM
|I had a frozen stem on a pinarello, I could not move the &*@^%#! think. I tried soaking liquid wrench, vinegar, lightweight oil and no luck.
I was near the point of heating up the headtube, when I tried the Pro Link.... it worked with ease!
BTW... proper tools always help.
Best part is its enviromentally friendly.
|re: &@(# stuck lockring!||ukiahb|
Jul 28, 2003 6:30 PM
|Maybe see if you can tighten the cog a little more w/ a chain whip...if you can it should relieve some of the pressure on the back side of the lockring and that may help...may also start the lockring turning clockwise as desired|
|Tried that, too.||Humma Hah|
Jul 29, 2003 6:11 AM
|Pulled until a piece popped off the chainwhip. Nothing moved. But thanks for the suggestion.
I gotta believe the sumbitch put red locktite on that thing, and that's the big reason it was for sale at the flea market. If that's the case, enough differential heat to break the glueline (dry ice on the hub, torch on the cog), followed by a long soak in acetone, ought to soften it up.
Jul 31, 2003 8:24 AM
|didja ever get it off?|
|Today, I have 20 pounds of dry ice ...||Humma Hah|
Jul 31, 2003 8:41 AM
|... tonight, its got one more chance to come off in one piece, and then I'm putting a diamond burr in the mototool.
It WILL come off.
I heard a snap when I tried heating it with the torch last weekend, but didn't want to get the ring and cog so hot that I damaged the heat-treatment. That approach SHOULD do the trick if I can get enough temperature difference between the hub and steel parts. The dry ice should give me another 120 degrees or so. I'll probably remove the axel and bearings and just fill the hub with dry ice, then heat the cog.
|Did it work? nm||elcameron|
Aug 5, 2003 5:57 PM
|Nope ...||Humma Hah|
Aug 7, 2003 9:58 AM
|... my old coasterbrake might have held enough dry ice ... this hub would only hold about a teaspoon full.
It will succumb to the diamond tools this weekend. I'm done messing with it. No more Mr. Nice Guy.