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Calfee Luna Cross vs. Seven (Muse/new Mudhoney) ?(19 posts)

Calfee Luna Cross vs. Seven (Muse/new Mudhoney) ?kmac76
Jan 14, 2004 9:21 PM
I am the definition of a clydesdale (6'4" - 275 lbs) and I seriously considering adding a cross bike to my riding options. I have been following this discussion site for a while, and I have seen some very good and honest opinions. The local riding is hard-pack and fire roads, so this would be a high milage machine. I have done a lot of research on differnet options, and these 2, keep poping up as my favorites. Thanks for any input, advice or alternatives that you have.
re: Calfee Luna Cross vs. Seven (Muse/new Mudhoney) ?seamus
Jan 15, 2004 9:02 AM
I'm not too familiar with the Seven, but I love the Calfee, and had one of their road bikes for a long time. A lot of great engineering goes into a Calfee, but their cross bike lacks tire clearance, which means you won't get to run really large tires(nice option to have) and even with normal tires, mud might be a problem.

Also, it's disc only, I believe. Not really issue if you don't race, or if you don't mind buying a spare pair of disc cross wheels.
re: Calfee Luna Cross vs. Seven (Muse/new Mudhoney) ?atpjunkie
Jan 15, 2004 3:28 PM
both very expensive choices and for a guy your size you are going to want tire clearance. Personally (I'm 6'5" 235) I wouldn't want a cross bike that 'nice' as I'd be fearful I'd break it. I like to run 34's as they provide a softer ride for the bigger guy so I'd avoid the Calfee. plus I don't think carbon (Calfee is carbon yes?) is suited to cx for the bigger guy. IMHO you'd be better served on a boutique and/or custom steel rig built for you. I'd contact Independent Fab if you are out east and/or Soulcraft, Steelman, Sycip if you are out west. I'm missing a few Kelly, Interloc, Soma are cheaper routes as well.
re: Calfee Luna Cross vs. Seven (Muse/new Mudhoney) ?seamus
Jan 15, 2004 5:26 PM
Calfee does make a mighty, mighty strong bike, considered by many to be the one of the strongest frames per gram out there. And by your Seven vs. Calfee debate, I'd guess you're itching for something pretty exotoc. BUT. As Atpjunkie says...

Steel is real, and that's even more true for cyclocross bikes. It'll be heavier, but I'm guessing that big guys like yourself know that it's probably wise to go the route of strength/stiffness/reliability. Add Waterford, Rock Lobster to Atpjunkie's already excellent roster of quality steel rigs. You won't be disappointed, but then again, I'm biased; I've had carbon and aluminum and ti of all sorts, but now all my bikes (8, three of which are cyclocross) are steel.
re: Calfee Luna Cross vs. Seven (Muse/new Mudhoney) ?kmac76
Jan 15, 2004 7:47 PM
thanks for the input, I appreciate the info, you both bring up valid options (and give me more to think about.)

I have ridden oversize-stiff aluminum (Kleins) on both road and mountain, and have become used to the stiffness of the ride. I have looked at some of the steel options, (Kelly, Steelman, etc..) but I have not been able to convince myself that they won't be too flexy. I freely admit to being ignorant to the beauties of steel, but it seems that the sizing and customizing of the carbon or ti frames, not to mention the ease of maintenance, is a practical choice. (???)
steel and flexatpjunkie
Jan 15, 2004 9:59 PM
if you go custom, they'll build to your size. most custom builders have a variety of pipes to choose from. I almost ordered a Steelman this year (Brent's a great guy) but funds were needed elsewhere. He said he'd build bike to my size and riding style (large and hard). FWIW I'm presently riding 2 Al cx bikes as I got super deals on both. I don't mind the ride at all especially since most cx races are over before you could feel the wear of a harsh ride. All the top Belgians and Dutch ride Al (except World Champ Bart Wellens now on a CF Ridley prototype) Ridleys, Empellas and Colnagos, so that is testament to the materials function.
If I ever have the scratch I will order a Soulcraft or Steelman but am quite pleased with my 2 rigs ,which both bikes complete cost a little more than one of those framesets.
Calfee Luna crossDan Cas
Jan 16, 2004 5:52 AM
Is different than any other geometry I've ever seen.The seat tube is very slack,the headtube is very slack,the BB is very high,the wheelbase is very short.

I have a Luna road bike and like it the best of any road bike I've ever had,but the choices they made on the Luna cross,particularly the 55mm drop on the BB,would stop me from getting it.Note that most people seem to like higher BB,so this is a quirk of mine.

I think they can make some changes such as put canti bosses on the frame,so these specs may be changable.

They also make a Tetra full custom cross rig which I would do in a heartbeat if I had the $ as I think carbon has the most potential of all the materials

As a point of reference,I've had 3 steel cross framesets,2 Ti's. I'm currently on a Mongoose labeled frame made by Ti Sports in Washinton state with a Carbon fork(Alpha Q).I consider the fork a big step up from the Gunnar steel forks I had(and bent).

I know nothing about the Sevens.

re: Calfee Luna Cross vs. Seven (Muse/new Mudhoney) ?dlbcx
Jan 16, 2004 9:46 AM
Aegis makes a carbon cross frame that might worth looking at. Also, from reading something from Cyclocrossworld, Wellens is currently testing out a carbon Ridley and may have done a few races on it. This frame may be out in 2004 but whether or not Ridley will selling them in US, I wouldn't know.
Dean also makes a Ti cross frame but don't know how much they would charge for a custom.
Presently, I'm racing a Steelman for cross. Brent's a great guy and will give you his opinions on what will and won't work. One item he did tell me about was carbon forks; don't buy one that has 1 inch steerer tube. Get one comes a 1 1/8 inch. He said that the smaller steerer tube won't hold up if you are doing some serious racing.
IMHO: Steel IS flexypitt83
Jan 16, 2004 1:43 PM
OK, that's a huge generaliztion based on 1 bike. But, my cross check does bounce around more than my old Al Specialized or my CF LOOK road bike. Even on smooth road rides I notice the "responsiveness". Racing was really "springy".

If you like Aluminum, why switch?

I know this over-simplifies the question and I'm sure there's lousy Aluminum and CF bikes as well as very nice steel. Again, my opinion, but I'm 230 and 6'4 and in no hurry to buy another steel bike.
IMHO: Steel IS flexyseamus
Jan 16, 2004 1:56 PM
I think that at least on paper, carbon fiber has the potential to be stiffest of all materials, per size/weight parameters, but I weigh 150 and dont' worry about it too much. I've heard of other big guys like yourselves who swear by steel, and others who prefer oversized aluminum or carbon. I think the most important thing once you start pushing the 200lb mark is to not get anything too light, no matter what material.
IMHO: Steel IS flexyatpjunkie
Jan 16, 2004 2:16 PM
we're about the same size and yes I have no problem with Al. But if I was going for a 'custom build' I'd choose steel. Yes, steel flexes, I've felt chainstay flex in sprints on steel frames but one built to my specs wouldn't. Also the flex in steel is what softens up the ride which could be beneficial in cx (granted as I've stated in 45 minutes at 90+% of max, comfort is really not an issue).
Personally I find thinner tube bikes more pleasing (read: Luddite-Retrogrouch) to the eye and do enjoy the ride of steel. (coming from an owner of 2 Al cx bikes, 1 Al Roadie and a Al FS MTB). Once again, some of my choices have been dictated by the $$. But in the best of all possible worlds what would you like under the xmas tree? I'll take a lugged Richard Sachs over any Ti, CF or Al machine out there.
And don't get me wrong, I like my steel bikepitt83
Jan 16, 2004 4:38 PM
Just that it was a surprise how it handled. It's more of a Buick Park Avenue ride versus a Lexus or BMW. Plush, roomy but not razor responsive and agile.

And the Surly has the added coolness X-factor to it too!
re: thoughts on Sevensnwbdrhoon
Jan 16, 2004 7:52 AM
Seven is a purely custom builder. They do both steel and ti and are very picky when it comes to listening to your input, thoughts and needs. so if you want an ultra-stiff, clydesdale cross bike with large amounts of tire clearance, that's what you'll get. They also know a lot about what works and what doesn't. And at the end of the day if you want something crazy, they will make it for you, but will give you many reasons why you may want to go with their advice. Basically what I'm saying is that they're as custom as you can get. Ask them for a catalog, well worth the few days it will take to get to you in the mail.

Of course the exact same things could be said for a custom Calfee. I have neither bikes (no $$$) and ride my Trek Al cross bike, but if I did have the cash I would be looking at one of those two bikes.

I know the guys and gals at Seven and they do a sick job. Of course, someone mentioned the other Boston crew, IF, and they do a great job as well. Both have people out there riding 'cross here in NE and nationally so they know what they're talking about.

PS - All 3 companies have EXCEPTIONAL customer service.
re: thoughts on Sevenatpjunkie
Jan 16, 2004 10:00 AM
yes the guys at Seven are good peeps. I'd suggest going steel for this guy. Though Ti has a great 'rust free-ness' that is beneficial in cx, it's ride is between that of Steel and Al. For a 275 pounder the weight savings of Ti over Steel is a non issue, Ti is harder to fix or repair, a more brittle metal and not cost effective enough for a guy this size and new to the sport. But I'll approve the purchase as maybe he'll decide he doesn't like cx and then I can buy it second hand cheap, we are about the same height so it should fit me. :o)
re: thoughts on Sevenkmac76
Jan 16, 2004 7:46 PM
I'll keep you in mind as a back-up buyer for the bike...what comnponents do you prefer atpjunkie? ...

Both companies have options in their custom programs for extra stiff/strong tube sets. This combined with the reputations and warranties both companies offer, have put my mind at ease as far as durability goes. There are numerous Al and scandium models that are attractive from a $$ standpoint as well as my experience on Al. This bike is a gift for myself, and I have put some $$ aside to splurge.

I think that I should state that I am not jumping headfirst into cross courses, jumps and obstacles. I have the luxury of living near almost endless hardpack dirt singletrack, that is almost tailormade for ripping on a cx bike. For what it's worth, I am going to a "semi-local" bike shop this week, just to look at a calfee frame, so I can see the construction and frame details. I will keep you all posted. In the mean time, thanks for all of the responses.

have funatpjunkie
Jan 19, 2004 3:33 PM
wish I had the scratch to do the same. but remember you could get 1 Seven Steel and an IF Steel frame for the price of one Seven Ti. In cross (if you decide to start racing) you will find 2 bikes are better than one. Good luck and post the pics when you finalize.
Hell I'll ride any components, but if you are going from the ground up Campy Chorus will be just fine thanx!
have funkmac76
Jan 19, 2004 5:31 PM
thanks again for all the info... it sure opened up a couple of more options. I should be moving towards some sort of decision over the next couple of weeks, and I'll post that and the pics when I get the chance.

Have Fun.....(well stated)
re: have funsnwbdrhoon
Jan 20, 2004 9:32 AM
please do post pics.

i wish i had the cash for a nice bike like that....
have funatpjunkie
Jan 20, 2004 10:09 PM
if you were anywhere near San Diego I'd let ya demo my rigs and see if maybe Al is an option for you as well.