Oct 13, 2003 9:15 AM
|I'm getting a new wheel set for my Bianchi Axis and am looking at the standard Mavic Open Pro rims w/ Ultegra hubs.
Oct 13, 2003 10:00 AM
|my thoughts:||matt friedman|
Oct 13, 2003 11:34 AM
|open pros with ultegra hubs will make an excellent 'cross wheelset. it won't be as sexy as some of those deep rim wheelsets, but it will be lighter -- about 1600g -- and tougher than almost anything out there. i have one set of ops with centaur hubs that i've been riding for two years and they have remained truer than the pop and straighter that the straight guys on "queer eye..."|
|re: Wheelset Input||buffalosorrow|
Oct 13, 2003 3:44 PM
|I have three wheelsets.
-Campy moskva's laced 3x to chorus and
-Open Pro's laced 3x to daytona(now centaur)
-Cxp 30's laced 3x to suzue pro max (singlespeed set)
They are simple, inexpensive, durrable, every day put through hell wheels. Purchased top two minimaly used with cassettes for around $200 ea. And the 30's new with my SS.
I am always looking for better looking, more interesting, deeper V, eccentric spoke count or pattern or something carbon. But can not sell the idea to myself, just killing time and should be riding. the OP's and moskva's are light, weight around 1600g, and just plain work in all conditions.
The two other wheelsets I have had my eyes on are zipp 303's, but really will they make my riding better at $900? And campy shamal's 16 spoke, both being deeper V and used can be found for $200-$300.
Go with the OP's. and keep peace of mind.
Oct 13, 2003 4:51 PM
|Hold on there! I don't know if your getting a set of Shamal's will make your rides any better, but I can say "probably" they will. |
I had a set of 16/14 spoke Shamal sew-up's on my old Tuscany and loved 'em. Best wheelset I ever had or rode. I couldn't bust 'em or knock 'em out of true or wear out the hubs no matter what I did.
And those things flat FLEW down the highway! Naturally, they didn't accelerate or climb like my old Neutron tub's, but once you got them moving they just pedaled and handled so nice. You could cruise on those wheels all day and still want to ride some more.
I wish Campy never stopped production on the Shamal, because IMHO they were absolutely one of the best ever - a true classic.
Oct 14, 2003 9:48 AM
|I have a pair of Cosmics. Same deal as with your Shamals...
Great for WFO circuit races, bad for crits/having to accelerate over and over again out of corners... Probably good for WFO 'cross races, but bad for most of the ones I've ever ridden...
Now a pair of 404s. That's a different story!
Not that I'll win races, but hey nice equipment is a good thing, right?
|No, the Shamal wouldn't be my choice for crits,||AJS|
Oct 14, 2003 6:15 PM
|...but I don't do crits anyway. |
Yes - good equipment is ALWAYS a good thing! ;)
|Shamals for Cross ??????||cross bro|
Oct 15, 2003 4:40 AM
|Have you really used Shamals for Cross Racing ?
I have a set that I have used for a few years for Time Trials. Superb for that job.
I have not considered using them for my cross bike due to the slow accelleration and stiffness.
|Shamals for Cross ??????||MShaw|
Oct 15, 2003 9:08 AM
|Cross is about as far away from optimal for a Shamal-type wheelset as you can get: slow(er), repeated accelerations, etc.
I don't see that the stiffness thing would be terrible, you're not racing for more than an hour at a time...
I'm not going fast enough to ride something aero, so Velocity Escapes for me! (but that doesn't keep me from lusting after a pair of 404s that I can afford to kill racing cross...)
|Probably not so bad...||Dwayne Barry|
Oct 15, 2003 10:17 AM
|this is a deep aero-rim correct? Are they really super heavy or something?
Stiffness, what do you mean?
Different wheels don't vary much (if at all) in their vertical compliance which would affect the comfort of the ride. This is primarily determined by the tire and the tire pressure.
If you mean lateral flex (which is what most people are talking about when speaking of wheel or frame stiffness), this is largely irrelevant in wheel performance. Unless a wheel is so flexy that it rubs the brake there is almost no savings in power (or gain in speed) of a stiff wheel over a flexy wheel.
Once you're going faster than about 12mph, the aero benefits of a deep dish wheel start becoming significant. Deep rims also have the advantage of "slicing" through mud/sand much better than spokes. Even in crits, you're almost always better off with a deep rimmed, heavy wheel than a light, non-aero wheel. I'm not sure if this would extend to cross races where the overall speed is much slower, and the accelerations are generally started from a slower speed and more frequent.
|Exactly my reasoning, Dwayne||AJS|
Oct 16, 2003 5:33 AM
|Yes, the Shamal's rim is 30mm deep, with bladed (aero) spokes. I don't remember the weight specs, but they were not super heavy, just heavier than their climbing brethren like the Nucleon's. |
My point of contention is that everyone is so worried about weight, when in fact the aerodynamics of a wheel has more of an overall effect on speed/efficiency than strictly weight alone.
I have heard the same argument, that at speeds in the mid-teens and above, an aero wheel can make up the difference of about 200 grams of weight per wheel over a "climbing" wheel, due to reduced wind loading. In actual practice, I found that to be true - the Shamal's always seemed to kick ass on my Nucleon's even at fairly low speeds. Only on steep or extended climbs did find I preferred the Nukes. (BTW: both wheelsets were the tubular versions, so at least that variable was equal.)
When I'm again able financially to get back to Campy, I'll be getting their latest aero wheel or another set of Shamal's as a second wheelset for my road conditioning rides.
However, I don't think that at the speeds of CX, and with the short climbs, that an aero wheel would do much good over a lighter low-profile wheel (unless you can afford carbon rims!!)
|I think what most people fail to realize...||Dwayne Barry|
Oct 16, 2003 8:06 AM
|is that the gain in speed (or reduction in power to maintain/achieve a given speed) is about an order of magnitude greater in the aerodynamics realm than in the weight realm (even the rotational weight of a wheel rim) of wheel design. Consequently only under the most favorable circumstances (i.e. going very slowly with little drag being generated) does a light wheel offer an advantage over an aerowheel. That's why even in a crit any gain made in accelerating a light, non-aerowheel out of corner as compared to a heavy, aerowheel is lost almost instantly to the heavy, aerowheel which takes less power than the light, non-aero wheel to maintain a given speed even in the middle of a pack of riders when drag is relatively low.|
|Probably not so bad...||MShaw|
Oct 16, 2003 9:37 AM
|I don't own a pair of Shamals, but do own a pair of the original Cosmics. They are one STIFF riding wheelset. Between the low spoke count, deep section rims, and super high tension they're about the stiffest wheels I've ever ridden.
Rode them in the Yuma, AZ stage race this spring. Lots of chip and seal type roads that made the Cosmics not so nice to ride... Mmmm, 404s...
I'm not fast enough to need a pair of carbon wheels for cross like Vervecken. Then again, he gets paid to ride them and I'll have to pay for them out of my own pocket... One good rock and there goes $300!
I've had arguments elsewhere with the "aero wheels are a gimmick" guys (that don't ride them...). They say that there's only a minimal benefit to riding aero wheels. I disagree, but try arguing religion with someone some time...
|Oh hell no! Not for CX...||AJS|
Oct 16, 2003 5:10 AM
|...I mean that I ran the Shamal's on my previous road rig: a 2000 Litespeed Tuscany w. an all-Record 10 group & Cane Creek brakes. That bike was strictly an "on-road" machine - no forays into the woods with that baby! ;)|| |