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Eastern euro, Russian and Chinese Ti custom frames?(15 posts)

Eastern euro, Russian and Chinese Ti custom frames?buffalosorrow
Aug 2, 2003 6:24 AM
Some say that the Ti is of poorer quality that that of say, seven and litespeed, any truth?

$1200 for a custom ti frame, seems like a decent deal? But will the bb be sloppy and overall will the frame become loose and flex too much?

Anyone with any luck, good or bad?
re: Eastern euro, Russian and Chinese Ti custom frames?dlbcx
Aug 4, 2003 8:57 AM
I would find out what the callout for the material is first then see if it matches the US spec. Some of the cheaper Ti is CP4, which is pure Ti and doesn't have the same modulus as 3/2.5 Al/V. Also, some of the overseas stuff is sport grade material, which is material that didn't meet the aerospace spec's.
Having said this, I think Habanero and Airborne have had pretty good luck with their Chinese made frames. Some of Russian alloys claim to be much stronger than 3/2.5 but in doing some checking, their claims seem to be a lot of hype. Plus, some of the Russian alloys don't have a US counterpart so you have to trust their claims.
Habanero, Airborne, Sibex, Aerolite...buffalosorrow
Aug 4, 2003 10:29 AM
If Ti cyclocross frames are "better" for some reasons over steel and aluminum, why are these frames obscure and typically unpopular? Are manufacturers such as empella, ridley and steelman sponsoring more riders?
I know from speaking to a polish line welder that the pay is low and work hours high, is this how the frame prices are kept low? Taking advantage of economic conditions?
How do the board people feel about this? Is it better to purchase a local quality frame and pay more, rather than purchasing overseas, to save money and contribute to an agressive capitalistic market system?

Do I dare enter morality into my daily ride...
funny you mention that...arctic hawk
Aug 4, 2003 11:00 AM
It's kinda funny you mentioned that last bit about

" How do the board people feel about this? Is it better to purchase a local quality frame and pay more, rather than purchasing overseas, to save money and contribute to an agressive capitalistic market system? "

When I started looking for a CX bike, I wanted the frame built in the North America, then Europe, & finally Asia. It's my personal philosophy on buying pretty much anything. I would prefer the jobs remain in the local market.
I ended up with a Trek XO1 & I am completely happy with it! A few more upgrades & ...

Arctic Hawk
Habanero, Airborne, Sibex, Aerolite...hummu
Aug 4, 2003 11:24 AM
Yes. Everybody should be on Rivendells. $2200 base price frame and fork. Thank goodness they're not local to me. I'll stick with my Marinoni.
re: Eastern euro, Russian and Chinese Ti custom frames?snwbdrhoon
Aug 4, 2003 12:12 PM
hey.... johannes huseby from IF rides on a ti bike. and he kicks some serious ass.

Check out his bike at:
http://www.cyclocrossworld.com/riders/bots_Johs_03.htm
IF Ti? at what cost?buffalosorrow
Aug 4, 2003 12:40 PM
This frame is an example of what I want and exactly what I can not afford.
Thank you for posting.... I am going to turn away and cry.

The IF 'custom only' ti frame are what $2200? add a $800- $1000 custom paint job? But who paints Ti?

The overseas Ti frame range for $450 (see post above Pro Ti) to $1200? aerolite, sibex, airborne....
Moratiatpjunkie
Aug 4, 2003 1:14 PM
made in Czech. owned by a huge Multinational Ti company. Good material, great welds and innovative design. Using a flat plate at seat stay/ BB connection to produce similar effect of Ibis BowTi. Cool bikes. go to www.celopacific.org and read Jim Cushing Murray's report on them (and Tufo Tires). He visited the factories when he was over there for the World Masters CX. Fairly affordable as wel.
Great artical.. more ti buildersbuffalosorrow
Aug 4, 2003 2:24 PM
Morati ti cross frame $1470
ti cyclocross fork $580

Another Ti frame builder would be Dean http://www.deanusa.com/index2.htm
Torreys Ti Cx frame $1450

Dean Ti joined up with Ionic (steel and alum):
IONIC CX 'Digby'
FRAME WEIGHT: 3 LB. 5 OZ.
BIKE WEIGHT: 19 TO 21 LB.
MATERIAL:Columbus Zona Cyber Nivacrom CrMo Steel
MANUFACTURING:TIG WELDED
FINISH:TEAM ORANGE, SILVER, MANGO, CHARCOAL + MANY MORE.
FRONT DER. CLAMP:Clamp On
SEAT POST DIA:27.2 mm
FEATURES:AERO OVALIZED AND BUTTED
BREEZER DROPOUTS
FORGED SEAT POST COLLAR CLAMP
CABLE ROUTING THAT MAKES SENSE
PRICE$700.00 FOR FRAME ONLY

Not bad...????
one more companysnwbdrhoon
Aug 4, 2003 5:15 PM
Or try:

http://www.sibexsports.com/SibexSports/Russian%20CX.htm

Travis Brown was running one of their forks for a while. Not sure what his frame was under that Trek paint job.
Interesting Post...Steve_O
Aug 4, 2003 7:53 PM
Why aren't Ti Cyclocross bikes more popular?
Personally, I think Ti is a great material for cross. It doesn't rust and offers a compliant ride. I SUSPECT that more manufacturers don't offer Ti cyclocross frames simply because:

1) For many riders the CX bike is often their 2nd or 3rd bike. That means that might not spend the big $$$ for it (example - Colorado Cyclist KHS special)
2) Ti is expensive to machine and weld. That extra cost doesn't translate well into a frame with a low sales volume.

What about Overseas Titanium?
If the bike fits then why not? Airborne (who supposedly uses http://www.xacd.com.cn ) has proven that overseas Ti frames are of good quality.

What about low cost custom steel?
If you have regrets about buying a frame from overseas then check out some of the great low cost custom steel builders. There are many examples including Curtlo, Peyto, Spicer, Teesdale, and of course Graham Weigh ;-).

Finally...
There's always ebay! Maybe a used Litespeed Applachian?
Ohh... Some other low cost Ti frames...Steve_O
Aug 4, 2003 8:01 PM
http://www.vanguardtitanium.com/
http://www.batch.org/
http://www.vailcycleworks.com/
http://www.magmaa.com/
http://www.sampsonsports.com/

Don't know if they make Ti CX frames but worth researching...
re: Interesting Post...snwbdrhoon
Aug 5, 2003 4:17 AM
The main reason I think that people don't make Ti cross frames (aside from the ones) is similar to why we don't see a bunch of ti frames in the peloton (or do we under those paint jobs)... tradition dictates the race course most of the time aka steel/aluminum. and that directly translates to the consumer market, esp. in a small volume department like 'cross.
Interesting Post...dlbcx
Aug 5, 2003 7:19 AM
Another difference between the US builders and the overseas builders is the people doing the welding. In the states, I suspect that all of the Ti bike makers have dedicated welders where all they do is build frames. Whereas overseas, those welders may be only building frames 30% of the time; the rest of time may be working on tubing for an airliner or a sub. Also, the overseas welders are probably paid on a piecework basis so the company may have a higher turnover. That's what I learned when I had to deal with overseas outsourcing when I worked at an optical startup.
Ti $$$$atpjunkie
Aug 5, 2003 1:38 PM
overseas, main savings are in creation and extrusion of Ti. Takes heaps of power and a fairly safe environment, both of which are cheaper (power) and safety (more lax abroad) just to make the Tubing. granted welders are cheaper but it's the Ti process as a whole that gets expensive. Ibis had a great article on it.