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You guys all argue about course design?(15 posts)

You guys all argue about course design?richpierce
Nov 19, 2002 2:37 PM
I was wondering if that's a local thing or happens everywhere. You hear a lot about a course being too flat, too steep, too many barriers, too few barriers, too much pavement, too much grass, too long a loop, too short, too wide open, too much "singletrack" (anything not paved to some)etc? Courses seem to vary a lot and there seem to be a lot of "experts" who like to say, "cross is supposed to be like this" or "cross is supposed to be like that".
re: You guys all argue about course design?p lo
Nov 19, 2002 3:05 PM
yeah, or maybe we all just have really boring jobs and want to talk cross (good and bad)

btw, our course on saturday was pretty lame.....
Schwab CXBipedZed
Nov 20, 2002 3:41 AM
I liked the Schwab courses this year, particularly the one in the Springs. They fit my strengths really well which is speed barriers and fitness. I had trouble with the first barrier section coming off the road climb on the first 2 laps. Right after the start after essentially sprinting up the road climb when I dismounted I thought my legs were going to give out on me. Happened on the second lap too.

State CX will be tough as I don't do well on the Red Rocks course. Too many loose technical sections for my sissy roadie-ass.
Schwab CXp lo
Nov 20, 2002 7:46 AM
i have to give my vote to the boulder course this year. then red rocks and schwab in last......

the boulder courses always mix technical and power sections well and the races are close and exciting. i love the technical aspects of RR, but the races can get little boring becasue everyone is riding alone. the schwab courses are always so long (9-10 minute laps) and kinda boring. i think the golden course makes for some fun racing but i hate how there are so many loose rocks around the barriers. makes running a little sketchy. but it is really all not a big deal because i haven't missed a race all year and had fun at every one (maybe not the springs).
Yea, but it can't be too muddy (nm)Wheelz
Nov 19, 2002 3:15 PM
re: You guys all argue about course design?wahleyed
Nov 19, 2002 3:17 PM
Its just fun. Its not like any of us are skipping races due to the course or anything.
Jungle crossB123
Nov 19, 2002 3:24 PM
My favorite course is basically a smooth mtb course. Wide at the start into narrow wooded trails with barriers on corners and before downhills. Short runnups that can be ridden by some, don't forget the off-camber descents too.
baltimorep lo
Nov 19, 2002 4:01 PM
i thought the supercup (sunday) course in balitmore last year was really fun!!!!
opinions vary greatlyclimbo
Nov 20, 2002 5:39 AM
on what a cross course should be. For most it's just banter, some get upset about it but honestly, I don't think anyone is really in a position to argue. All courses are going to be different, just like all road and MTB courses are different from each other.

Some of us here are promoters and we all know how hard it is to please everyone. It's racing and it's cross, it's fun and it doesn't matter about the course, everyone rides the same one.
opinions vary greatlyeurochien
Nov 20, 2002 9:22 AM
The USCF or UCI cyclo-cross rules are a good source of info to build a 'cross course. It mentions course length, and also that a cross course should be wide enough to pass (8 feet across), which should automatically exclude singletrack. Whether there is only one good line during the race is a different matter (mud, speed in a corner, etc.). Bottom line is you should be able to pass at any point during the race in terms of course width. Height of barriers is also listed. Another source of course design ideas and "standards" is those World Championships videos, where there are NO run downs, no barriers on top of a fast, steep uphill section (flying BMX-style stuff). I suppose some promoters are afraid that if there's not a "fear factor" to their course it becomes boring. I don't agree, but at least they're out there promoting events so my point is not to diss them. I think cyclo-cross courses should avoid rocky sections and downhill runnig sections, big (a matter of perspective maybe) jumps (on or off the bike)over drop-offs or wide gaps. Other than that I'll be happy with anything the course throws at me (twisty descents, sand, concrete stairs, fallen trees, steep uphills or downhills).
opinions vary greatlyatpjunkie
Nov 20, 2002 9:56 AM
courses here in SD have been good and people have complained as well. Technical, lots of off camber, good barriers and run ups. Big complaint has been heat. it's been 80 degrees for both races (starting at 9ish AM). Second race had too long of climbs for my big ole self and in the heat I suffrered like a dog. I didn't complain though, the little flyweights were tickeld pink. We had one bad off camber left turn to dismount in bad dirt. was tough as you needed your right foot on the pedal to hold traction and then dismount and run before you hit the barrier. Much Carnage. but good for technical riders. The firts race suited me better I hope the third does as well, but I refuse to bitch.
Complaints that don't make senseeurochien
Nov 20, 2002 1:37 PM
I once asked a participant what he thought about the course for a race that my team and I were promoting. His response was: "I don't know... It's windy". I thought that was "priceless".
Nov 20, 2002 9:15 PM
well I'd like something with some wide open straights and hills you can take some momentum into. I can hang with most in the twisty stuff as well. It's just these 180 hairpin into long climbs that kill me. But what works for a Masters Clydesdale (my non existent division) might not for another. I can rip many peoples legs off in long flat stuff as my motor is big. Short burst climbs are okay but long drag outs are just miserable. That's the way it goes when you are built like 2 Pantanis, at least I still have my hair
opinions vary greatlyclimbo
Nov 20, 2002 10:20 AM
I sort of agree but I prefer a bit more on the technical side, so to me, if a course had a few stretches of singletrack, jumps or rocky stuff I wouldn't mind. No matter what the rules are, people will always have different opinions of what they should be.
Nov 20, 2002 10:04 AM
We do our races at a winery, and we have a lot of terrain to work with, but we're limited by the access of cars to the start of the races. We had a problem with thorns in our first two races, then it was mud last time, and coming up, dry and long...mmmm

Anyway, I do have some sticklers for "advice" for the course we use. Some ppl think it is too hard, some say it's not for cross, etc. I put it together, racers come to race and have a good time, etc.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.