|Light Clincher RIMS?||Woof the dog|
Jan 30, 2004 9:44 PM
|Let us name them!
Is there anything under 400 grams that actually is a quality rim?
Aren't IRD rims (or something like that) 390 grams? I thought they were crap.
|re: Light Clincher RIMS?||russw19|
Jan 30, 2004 10:41 PM
|400 grams is a tough barrier for normal spoked rims. Carbon tubulars are a different story. It's like the 1 kilogram mark for frames. There are a few that are under, but they tend to be scary light, and not really suited for everyday use.
Yes, the IRD Cadence is 390. I had a pair in the shop I worked at and we weighed them.. 388 and 391. So the weights are real. Those rims are pretty much the same rim as the American Classic 350 rim, but the IRD has eyelets and is therefore slightly heavier. Other than that, a realistic barrier is more like 425 grams. Quite a few more rims fit that range. Open Pros, Velocity Aeroheads, DT RR 1.1s, Ambrosio Excellence to name a few.
Of all of those, I would choose the DT as my rim of choice. It is slightly more expensive than the Open Pro, but also a few grams lighter, and I think it is better made.
|re: Light Clincher RIMS?||tube_ee|
Jan 31, 2004 8:16 PM
|I would say that 400 grams is a tough barrier for CLINCHER rims. If you remember the Araya CTL-370, you'll remember why. For sewups, the reliable weight limit is about 300 grams. 380 - 400 grams rims, like the Mavic GP4 (390) and others, were training rims, or race rims for rough roads. The "standard" racing rim, the GL-330, was 330 grams. And many of us remember the light weight racing rims, like the Mavic GEL-280, Fiamme Ergal (275), and others.
For what it's worth, you can build a ~1200 gram wheelset using the Ergals or GEL-280s, Campy hubs, and 36 DT revolutions. Using lighter hubs and spokes, this could be under 1100, I'm sure. Cost would be under $700, plus tires. For durability's sake, you could use a GL-330 in the rear. Any shop can order the rims from Euro-Asia.
|re: Light Clincher RIMS?||Woof the dog|
Feb 1, 2004 4:52 PM
|doesn't sound like you can get below 1350 with GEL's, DT revo's and Campy hubs.
|re: Light Clincher RIMS?||asgelle|
Feb 1, 2004 5:14 PM
|Where do you get GEL-330's (or 280's)? I thought they've been out of production for several years now.|
|re: Light Clincher RIMS?||Woof the dog|
Feb 3, 2004 12:05 AM
|don't ever see 330's, but there are pleny of 280's floating around on ebay or in older bike shops that may have one or two left over.
Feb 3, 2004 10:44 PM
|You find them in older LBS-s that don't know how rare they really are and sell them off for faily inexpensive.
I've got a stash of several NOS GL330s, lots of Campy Stradas, and a few misc other tubular rims.
If you want some older lightweight rims that have been glued, pay postage and they're yours. I just got a bunch of Fiammes from a former tubular rider and don't need them after all.
|re: Light Clincher RIMS?||russw19|
Feb 2, 2004 9:25 AM
|I thought that by the header, it was obvious we were only talking about clincher rims... (not trying to be a smartass, just pointing that out...)
And I think 1200 for a pair of wheels built on GEL-280's is a bit optimistic. Not with Campy hubs and 36 spokes. Maybe with some superlight hubs like Tune or American Classics, but not too likely with Campy hubs. (Unless you are ditching the skewers in your weights.) I think (and I could always be wrong here) that 1300 is a bit more realistic. Maybe as low as 1250, but I doubt much lower. This assumes real world weights, and not underinflated internet weights.
I have a set of GEL 330's on Campy C-Record hubs, 32 hole 3 cross Revolutions all around with Control Tech Ti bolt on skewers on my retro bike, and they are still around 1350 grams. Take off 100 grams for the extra between the 330's and the 280's and you are still 50 grams over your target. Of course mine are a freewheel hub so they are about 85 to 100 grams lighter than current Campy Record Cassette hubs. If you use older 8 speed Record hubs, the difference is more like 130 grams. And the skewers I have are about the lightest on the market. They are not quick release, but the bolt ons... and they don't get more than 5 grams lighter. If you used regular Campy skewers, you would easily add that 40 grams from the freewheel back on. Maybe more like 60 for the pair.
I am not saying it can't be done, but I am not that optimistic about it either.
|doing the math.... 1200grams can't be done||russw19|
Feb 2, 2004 9:36 AM
|Just the spokes, rims, nipples, and hubs alone are quite a bit over this number. Not including skewers or rim tape.
Here's the break down....
GEL 280's if claimed at 280g each x 2 = 560g
Campy Record Rear hub (as per Campy w/o skewers) 316g
Campy Record Front hub (again, as per Campy) 181g
Average weight of DT Revolution spoke with alloy nipple (average based on weight of 100 spokes of 290mm with alloy nipples, divided by 100.) 5 grams each, x 64 for 2 32 spoke wheels = 320g
Add those up and you get 1377 grams. Now, I am not saying my numbers are absolutely perfect, they may vary slightly, but not enough to get those wheels to around 1200 grams. There is a big difference between slight variations and 177 grams.
|Those Campy weights are with skewers.||divve|
Feb 2, 2004 10:28 AM
|They weight about 134 a pair. You're now down to 1243g.|
|Thanks divve... I stand corrected.||russw19|
Feb 2, 2004 2:43 PM
|I thought in my first post that 1250 would be close, but I didn't think 1200 was possible. Around 1200 with CX-Rays is closer. CX-Rays with the poly ax spokes would knock another 20 grams off and now we are closer to the 1200 figure. With Tune or American Classic hubs, under 1200 would be possible. With Tune hubs, GEL 280s and Sapim CX-Rays, 1160 is a possible number.
I know the post said ~1200 and now we are 'around' 1200 grams. But we are still dealing with tubulars, and not clinchers. With a light clincher rim, we are still up around close to 1400 grams.
Anyways, divve is right, and I stand corrected... it can be done (or at least damn close to it) with Campy hubs, and certainly with lighter hubs. With clinchers and a bit of cash, you may be able to build something between 1350 and 1400 grams.
Feb 2, 2004 3:21 PM
|...rather surprised myself that you could get that light with a "conventional" wheel set. I didn't know it was possible either, only that the Campy weight was too heavy in the end.|
|I was....||Woof the dog|
Feb 3, 2004 12:03 AM
|I did my own calc and it seems that realistically, right about 1300 grams for GEL/Revo/al.nips/campy record hubs.
the real question is, just how reliable GEL's are and what exactly happens when a rim cracks while I am riding.
|The GEL 330's were great||russw19|
Feb 3, 2004 4:13 PM
|If you are worried about strength, the 330's are a better choise. They will add 100 grams total to the pair's weight, but they are stronger. If you take a look around you will notice that many current tubulars (alloy) are not even this light. The Mavic Reflex, the Campy Barcelona, and the Velocity Escape are all closer to 380 grams each. So a set of NOS GEL 330's may not be a bad option if you are looking for light alloy tubulars.
As for the rim cracking while you are riding... it shouldn't be that bad. Most likely the rim will start to crack at the spoke eyelets and you will notice it and replace it long before the rim catastrophically separates on a ride. Unless you hit something, it would be very rare (I have never heard of it happening) that a wheel would disintegrate under you while you are riding. I have seen a paired spoke wheel collapse when the rider broke a couple spokes by getting a large stick caught in the wheel, but that was spokes breaking, not the rim. I can not think of anytime that I have seen a wheel collapse because the rim cracked.