|Campy & Shimano 10 speed wheel compatibility||jimPz|
Jan 30, 2004 9:07 AM
|I had just finished building up a new Cannondale w/ Dura Ace 10 spd & I had a friend's new Marinoni with Record 10 spd.
I put the Campy wheel on the shimano bike & it worked perfectly with no adjustments.
with a an adj of the rear der outer stop & a cable tension adj, the shimano wheel shifted fine on the campy bike.
Being the Marinoni is quite complete, it'll be interesting to see once if all adjustments are doe, wheels can be switched between the 2.
Jan 30, 2004 9:25 AM
|The difference in cog spacing is 4.12-3.95 = .17mm. It's about the same 4-5% error per shift that occurs when using a 9-speed shimano wheel on Campy 9-speed drivetrain.
When the Campy wheel is used on the Shimano drivetrain the derailleur is undershifted by this 4-5% on each shift. When the Shimao wheel is used on a Campy drivtrain, the derailleur will overshift by 4-5% on eac shift.
Either situation requires the derailleur to be centered in the middle of the cassette to distrubute the 40% accumulative error equally between upshifts and downshifts.
Jan 30, 2004 10:14 AM
|While the 40 % sound like a lot, the width difference between the 2 cassettes is .17 * 9 (only 9 cogs have 'spaces') =1.53mm. if the der is centered on the cogset, the difference to make up is half this (.72)
As the top jockey wheel floats, this is a pretty small number to affect shifting.
|True, the jockey wheel float takes up the error. nm||Spunout|
Jan 30, 2004 10:19 AM
Jan 31, 2004 7:30 AM
|The float of the top jockey wheel is only a fraction of the positioning error. It's used up on the very first shift.|
Jan 31, 2004 9:39 AM
|well, I switched wheels & it works fine. The float is more than a 'fraction' of a shift.
I know what the numbers work out to be, but in the 'real' world the wheels shift & work fine.
I know all the number work out to the 40% difference for 9 spd also. I have a Pinarello Prince & switch between Campy Eurus & Mavic heliums w/ a Ultegra casette, no changes & shifts perfectly.
I did the same thing earlier on a Giordani Ti (Litespeed) No problems.
I could see a problem shifting on a real short chainstay bike (where shifting can already be iffy at the extremes due to the chain angle.
Jan 31, 2004 12:33 PM
|No offense intended to anyone, but I've seen a lot of bikes pass by of which the owners say it works "perfect", only to find that their idea of "perfect" isn't quite the same as mine is:)|
|What do you think of the 10 speed conversion cassette?||the bull|
Jan 31, 2004 6:35 PM
|I think it thoughs shift rough. I sometimes wonder if a Shimano 10 with their chain would shift smoother than the American classic with the Campy chain I am using now?
On my 9 speed Campy bike the Shimano cassette/chain I put on shifts better than the Campy OEM stuff did! There is something to be said for the HG set up! I like the way it takes the clunk out of Campy.
|What do you think of the 10 speed conversion cassette?||divve|
Feb 1, 2004 1:01 AM
|I only know of the Mavic 10s cassette and wasn't too impressed with that. From what I saw I don't think it even had any shifting ramps.
Personally, I try to stay away from that type of stuff. I either make a complete conversion or stick to what I have. Although I always wrench on my own bikes I don't enjoy it. Experimenting with parts only increases the chance of a potential headache:)
My Campy stuff shifts very smooth and quick, with the difference that Shimano sort of rolls up and down a cassette instead of almost immediately engaging the next gear. I also find Shimano stuff also to be more fault tolerant. It doesn't take much to get their stuff running smoothly. Campy requires careful attention to cable drag in order to get it running accurately in all gears.
Feb 1, 2004 5:27 AM
|When I put XTR on my mountain bike it worked almost perfectly without any adjustment right off the bat. I find (like you) that when I go to adjust it there is a lot of twisting and turning and not alot changes. With Campy it is either right or wrong.
I am very happy with the Shimano/Campy setup I have on my 9 speed Pinarello. It works good. I get the Ergo levers that I like the feel of, and I also get the smooth hassle free shifting and the better quality HG chain I have grown to love over the years.
|the exact float...||C-40|
Jan 31, 2004 4:19 PM
|The exact float on Campy top jockey wheel is .38mm (.015inch), so it takes two shifts to use up all the float, but only if the derailleur is perfectly aligned. The lower pulley is still off-position by the full 20% on the fourth shift, at the minimum, which causes the chain to run crooked between the upper and lower wheels. Although the shifting may seem to be perfect, the chainline will be off. As long as you spend most of your time in the middle portion of the cassette, the error will be minimal. I wouldn't use this type of setup on bike used for serious climbing, where a lot of time is spent in the largest two cogs.|
|the exact float...||jimPz|
Feb 1, 2004 11:20 AM
|C-40, again I know what the 'numbers' say, However in riding it seems to work, as to the post again, about shifting not being as perfect as the user says, My 9 speed wheels shift great, I swao between a campy & shimano wheel make no adjustments & have no problems. I would expect 10 speed to be similar. Give the chain is slightly wider than the teeth on the cogs, there is even more play in a shifting system.
while the published numbers are a great place to start, how they function on the road is of more interest to me. At 46, i've been riding since bikes really were '10' speeds & wrenchin' longer than i care to remember.
I don't expect that every 10 speed bike can switch between Campy & shimano wheels and not have a problem (sometimes switching between compatible wheels takes adjustments)
However, I think it's good for cyclists to know that it can work, inspite of the offical line which says no.
Feb 1, 2004 3:26 PM
|FWIW, I've been riding and wrenching a even longer. As a mechanical engineer, I like believe it is good to understand how all the parts in the system are working together. The numbers tell you that at the extreme ends of the cassette, all the play in the derailleur and the chain are gone and undesirable side forces are wearing away at the chain, cogs and derailleur. Can't be great for longevity.
If I wanted to use a Shimano wheel that bad, I'd buy a Wheels Manufacturing cassette with Campy spacing and be confident that everything was working properly. If you want to use a Campy wheel on a Shimano 10 drivetrain, all the high-level wheels are available with shimano cassette bodies that will accept the new 10-speed shimano cassette.
There really is no good reason to be using improperly spaced cogs, except on a temporary basis.