|Wheelset shootout: DA\OpenPro vs Ksyrium Elite...||Farmpunker|
Jan 27, 2004 6:24 AM
|Well, I've decided to narrow my spring wheels down to one of these two options, the DA\Open Pro, handbuilt by Speedgoat, or the Ksyrium Elites.
Opinions? Anyone rode them both and can give a comparison? The Elites cost a little more, and there are quite a few slightly used sets on ebay and on the roadbike classifieds (higher end Ksyriums, as well).
I'm after a medium light wheel, that is reliable, and feels faster than my current MA3\old Utegra set. A set that can be used for fast road riding fun and maybe a couple duathlons come summer. I posted previously and tossed in the idea that I might use the new set for cyclocross, as well. I've since ditched that idea, and am going for a general use roadie wheel.
Anyway, I'm 140, Aegis Shaman, don't do many group rides, and like going fast for short (one hour) distances.
|Okay... I'll fire the first volley...||Chicago_Steve|
Jan 22, 2004 12:16 PM
|Consider your Speedgoat wheelbuild with the new DT Swiss RR 1.1 This rim is slightly lighter then the Mavic OP but of a similar design. You also eliminate the issue of the dreaded OP click.
From what I see Mavic is spending their marketing and R&D $$$ on wheelset systems instead of their rim technology.
|Salm dunk easy- the handbuilt DA\OpenPro's||Coolhand|
Jan 27, 2004 7:05 AM
|Wheel with probably be lighter, stronger and last longer (and be much easier to find a spoke for down the road). Make sure they use a nice light spoke like a DT Revolution.
At your weight you may be able to go with a 28 hole front hub to. They certainly can go with the lightest DT Revo spoke. The handbuilt wheelset is perfect for what you're going to do. The upcharge is not much over the "factory" wheelset DA/OpenPros either.
In summary, they are lighter, cheaper, and nicer. They will last longer and be easier to fix if needed. This one is easy. Get the handbuilts.
|Okay, handbuilds: OpenPro vs Velocity...||Farmpunker|
Jan 27, 2004 2:13 PM
|Apparently the handbuilt OP\DA set is the winner. I started to look for online wheel builders, other than Speedgoat, for comparison. Checked out oddsandendos and his prices are great, but he seems to favour the Velocity Aeroheads over the OPs. He's building some silly light wheels with Speedcific hubs (never heard of them but they sound good enough) and Aerohead rims (amoung others).
What's the difference between the aeroheads and the OPs? What is this OP "click" I keep hearing about?
|Okay, handbuilds: OpenPro vs Velocity...||boneman|
Jan 27, 2004 2:26 PM
|Aeroheads are slightly aero section while the OPs are box section. Biggest difference for me is that the OP's have ferrules and the Aeroheads don't. It's a personal choice but I find building wheels with ferruled rims to be easier, ie I'm lazy. Okay, Aeroheads are made in Oz and OP's in France or former French territories.
The click, I've never heard it but apparently relates to where the rim is joined and there's a bit that comes lose and clicks. I imagine that it would be rather annoying.
Personally, I'd look at getting your handbuilts made using Ambrosio Excellight rims. Same weight as the OP's and cost more which by definition is not a value proposition. I just feel that they're better finished than the Mavic's and furthermore, different. Also, I'd look at Sapim Lasers and CXrays as alternatives to the ubiquitous DT Revo/DB etc. I've used DT's, Revos and DB's, as well as Sapim DB, Lasers and CXrays and they're both great makers of spokes.
The wheel in the pic is a Phil hub using Sapim Laser's and Excellights (new models have different graphics) built by the Paul Hewitt who does an incredibly good job.
Jan 27, 2004 3:08 PM
|I like Velocity and recently used the AeroHead as part of a build. One nice feature of the Aerohead is that they offer an assymetric rear rim. This allows the builder to reduce the dish on the rear wheel and build a stronger wheel. Can't do that with an OP. I would suggest calling up Mike Garcia at OddsandEndos. He'll be more then happy to discuss the pros/cons of each rim with you...
Here's more then you ever wanted to know about the "click"
bw77 "Conflicting advice on Open Pros" 1/5/04 11:37am
|OP vs Aeroheads||Woof the dog|
Jan 27, 2004 8:12 PM
|aeroheads are just as unaerodynamic as open pros or any other box rim.
aeroheads are lighter by 15 grams or so (per rim).
aeroheads joint is not as nice as OP, dont count on it to be super even.
aeroheads have less quality of a braking surface machining compared to OP's, but close enough.
aeroheads don't click like one third of OP's
aeroheads don't use eyelets but that could be their downside
aeroheads are made out of a slightly softer alloy as far as i can remember.
aeroheads don't make that superstrong of a wheelset. The rim depth and stiffness is not that high (probably lower than OP but not significantly). that is a purely subjective opinion by the way.
aeroheads do crack around nipple holes (remember, they don't got no eyelets) just like many other rims (including plenty of Mavics). They are rims, after all! But the good thing is that the uneven joint will be filed down eventually by your breakpads.
aeroheads should cost you less than those silly OP's, and they do look better in my opinion. Just don't get the yellow powdercoat ones. Get either silver, gray or black. OP's look like sh!t by the way.
aeroheads may not build up as nice as OP's which again has to do with how well the rim was made. You may have a harder time to build them true AND round in a short amount of time.
aeroheads are heavier at the joint, like most rims as far as I know, but be prepared to notice the heavier spot goin round and round when riding on a totally smooth new road.
aeroheads are less known to wheelbuilders compared to Mavic OP's so you may get some frowns on your choice of rims
aeroheads show, in a way, that you are not going to be suckered into buying what everyone recommends: boring OP's laced 3x to shimano hubs. (OP's are not all that light either). I am proud of my wheelset, in a way. And if you can find some black al. nipples (brass drive side rear) and black DT revo spokes, mate them to black aeroheads (offset rear) using 2x, not 3x like every freak here screams (yes, 2x is just as good as 3x, AND it looks better, don't even get me started), all that on Dura Ace hubs, you will really like this wheelset. It will be lighter and 'more custom' which seems to be the two things everyone wants these days. You can even go radial on front and rear non-drive side though you will void warranty on hubs. Moreover, it would be a tiny bit cheaper than OP's cause aren't they like 65 bucks per rim? Just don't buy these weird and cheap aeroheads that were on sale quite some time ago... there was something weird about them - either not machined brake surface or heavier or both, i donno, just make sure you get legitimate normal aerohead clincher rims, yeah!) If you gonna use them as your normal wheelset for riding/training, get brass nipples though.
woof the god.
|I agree on the Areoheads||cdhbrad|
Jan 28, 2004 6:35 AM
|I don't have any OPs, but I do have 3 sets of Heliums (basically the same rim). However, my favorite wheels right now are a set of American Classics with Areoheads, 28 spoke Revolutions, radial laced front and 32 spoke DT Comp 3x on the rear. American Classic's basic build for a 175 lb. rider.
Lighter than the Heliums, no special order spokes to replace when one breaks, a great ride, and Red Powdercoat to go with my bike.
My heavier set of wheels are 28 spoke Velocity Deep V laced 3x on DA hubs. As Bullet proof as a set of CXP 30s I had.
I think that Velocity rims are seriously underrated compared to Mavic equivalents, primarily becuase they don't get all the marketing hype of Mavics.
|I agree on the Areoheads||MShaw|
Jan 28, 2004 10:55 AM
|This spot looks good to chime in...
I have a pair of Reflex wheels, a pair of Ritchey wheels (similar to Aeroheads), and several pair of Velocity's Escape rims (tubular version of the Aerohead).
The Velocity rims didn't build up much different than the Mavic rims. They seem to be of decent quality. Probably not a good idea to run AL nipples on the Velocites...
The Escape is on the rear of my cross bike. I've been mtn biking on that wheel for a few months now and it is still just about as true as the day it left the truing stand. I have whanged my rims on some rocks I didn't see night riding. These guys have seen some use!
I like the color options of the Aerohead. Having said that, I bought black.
The Aeroheads don't click. Yay!
The Ritchey "aero" rim is another good option. It comes OCR too. This rim is a little deeper than the Aerohead. No eyelets either.
|OP vs Aeroheads||TWD|
Jan 28, 2004 8:21 AM
|You make a few interesting points about the aeroheads.
First, you are correct, the joint in the rim aren't always that even and smooth. Of course, some fine grit sandpaper, and 5 minutes and you can have them as smooth as a baby's butt.
Second, I'd like to know if you have seen Aeroheads crack at the nipple hole, or is that your assumption since they don't have eyelets? Just curious, since I've been running various velocity rims on road, mtb, cx, and tandem dating back to 1995 or 1996. I've never had one crack on me, and I'm not a light rider by any stretch of the imagination (205 now, and a bit more at times in the past). On the other hand, every mavic rim that I have ever owned (with or without eyelets) has cracked at the nipple hole, and a good portion of the the people that I ride with have had similar experiences from Mavic rims, both road and mtb.
I think you are right that the aeroheads probably use softer alloy, but then again, I've never seen one crack. The mavic rims seem brittle to me. I'll never own one again.
I've had no issues with the strenght of the build on my aeroheads. Of course, I've got them laced 3x and I build my own wheels ;)
Also, as far as feeling the weight of the joint on a smooth road, I have a hard time believing that you are feeling the weight of the joint, and not the weight of your valve stem going around.
|I don't know that I can feel either,...||TFerguson|
Jan 28, 2004 10:25 AM
|but if you put a wheel/tube/tire in the trueing stand, it will stop with the joint at the bottom, not the valve stem.
|OP vs Aeroheads||Woof the dog|
Jan 28, 2004 4:52 PM
|I will talk to the mechanic who cracked one about what exactly happened and how long he rode that rim. So I will post the answer here in a few days. He also told me about softer alloy, and I agreed seeing how soft the rim was to work with when I was bending back a slight indent from a crash. A metal file literally eats in comapared to Mavics.
You guys are actually right, when I come to think of it, I rode Vredesteins (hand made at that time in Holland), and those always have a high spot so that is what I was feelin.
I disagree on Al. nipples. They work just fine and I raced on that wheelset in over 30 races (crits etc), in heavy downpour and lots of holes. No problems so far but only time will tell. I have brass drive side rear though.
|Two fantastic RBR myths...||Uncle Tim|
Jan 30, 2004 1:38 PM
|These boards have tons of good information, but there's some junk, too. There are two myths that eprsist on RBR and they need to be kept in proper perspective:
1) DA Bottom brackets are somehow "fragile", hard to install/adjust, and leak excessively and wear out fast.
That's an exagerration, at best.
2) Mavic Open Pro rims click. Put it this way, IF you OP rim is clicking, the chances are that it is a build issue.
|Don't you know the 4 truths of RBR yet?||pitt83|
Jan 28, 2004 5:12 AM
|1.) Velocity Aeroheads 3X with DA hubs
2.) Salmon Kool Stops
3.) Tacx bottle cages
4.) Vredenstein Fortezza Tricomps
Learn these and learn them well!
|Update: more grist for the mill...||Farmpunker|
Jan 29, 2004 10:06 AM
|Well, the original post has gone by the wayside. Great responses.
Did more research. Then I emailed oddsandends and asked what they recommended for my riding tastes. Mike recommended the Sun Ringle Venus rim with Speedcific hubs. Add in some Sapim spokes for flash appeal, and the cost would be almost exactly the same as an OP\DA setup.
|Mike knows what he's doing!||Steve-O|
Jan 29, 2004 1:52 PM
|The Venus rims are similar to the Fusions (shorter v style rim) but use eyelets...
Did he talk you into CX Rays? Those are some flashy spokes!
|Mike knows what he's doing!||Farmpunker|
Jan 29, 2004 4:05 PM
|No. He didn't. The Sapim XRays were my idea. He said that the Sapims might be a diminishing return type upgrade. Gotta love his attitude.|
|Mike knows what he's doing!||Woof the dog|
Jan 29, 2004 9:57 PM
|I am disgusted with the disparity in weight in Sun rims.
|Let us know what you decide to get.||BrianU|
Jan 29, 2004 5:59 PM
|I checked out that site and I'm curious about the performance of those SpeedCific hubs.