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building low count wheel, need strong spoke suggestions.(12 posts)

building low count wheel, need strong spoke suggestions.Qubeley
Jan 18, 2004 8:07 PM
I am in the planning of building a low spoke count rear wheel(16 spokes), and I would like to use the strongest spoke possible.
I ordered a sample of Sapim CX-rays because I heard all the hypes about these spokes. To my surprise, these spokes are extremely thin and flexy, haven't build the wheel yet, they just feel flexy when I bent them.
So now I am not so sure about the CX-rays anymore. Will 14ga be stronger and less flexy than the CX-rays? Or, would CX-rays actually produce stronger wheel once tension is put on them? Any other strong spoke that I should know about?
BTW: this wheel is for a feather-light sprinter, if such breed does exist..
So what kind of rim are you using?Spoke Wrench
Jan 19, 2004 6:44 AM
I'd worry more about that than I would the spokes.
So what kind of rim are you using?Qubeley
Jan 19, 2004 6:58 AM
the rim will be taken off a campy vento. 38mm aluminum rim. Pretty strong rim.
DT Aero spokes are an optionbimini
Jan 19, 2004 7:30 AM
Here is a link to Branford
http://www.branfordbike.com/wheels/wheel6.html#item3.

Branford use to carry Titanium DT spokes that were stiff and carried a lot of load. Not sure if DT still makes them and where to get them.

Like stated above most of the very low spoke count wheels use straight pull spokes. Your hubs may not be able to handle the loads. I would go 2x front and back.

Vento is a stiff solid aero low spoke count rim, the hubs may be a problem.

Are the Ventos already built up, if so why are you redoing them? The Ventos use aero straight pull spokes and the hubs are record class and designed to carry the load. If you are changing due to a different make or type sprocket setup, you may be better off buying a new freehub for the Ventos or buying some of the special 9/10 speed sprocket sets sold to mate with the Campy 8 speed.
DT Aero spokes are an optionQubeley
Jan 19, 2004 9:15 AM
The reason I have to re-lace the wheel is that I want to build it into a track racing wheel, and Vento happen to be cheap and aero enough.
I know that Campy has in the past produced a Shamal(same wrim as Vento)track wheelset. I downloaded the tech manual from Campy site, that model was built with 16 spoke, regualr pista hub(different drilling), radial non-drive, 2X drive side. I am hoping I can build a wheel similar to that.
If I can't realistically build a strong track wheel with Vento, I will just stay with my current set-up.
beware you might need to slot hubcyclopathic
Jan 20, 2004 6:21 AM
I think DA holes are 2.5 or 2.6mm, so any 2.8-3mm bladed spoke is not at option, I wouldn't slot hub on low spoke count wheel. Since you're building track wheel, dishing isn't problem, and if you don't ride streets you shouldn't worry about potholes.

Consider using mixed spokes, CX-rays for front and WS DH13 rear, esp drive side. x2 rear, x1 front (~10% shorter spokes for stiffer wheel) That should get you the best of 2 worlds, aerodrag on rear is only 60% of front good luck
don't bent 'emcyclopathic
Jan 19, 2004 7:06 AM
in built wheel spokes never bent, they stretch.

Yes 14G spokes have thicker cross section, so they will be less flexy, however the beauty of CX-rays that you may use more spokes and still end up with less air drag.

Personally 16 spoke rear wheel is pushing it, I'm 140lbs but I'd never build one for myself. I've seen enough exploded hub flanges to try it. There's a good reason why many prebuilt low spoke count wheels use direct pull spokes.

If you wanna build strong yet fast rear wheel I'd suggest to go to 24. Campy builds x2 16-drive/radial 8-left 24 spoke wheels sounds like a good idea, I'll try it some time.

CP

PS if you deside to go to 14G spokes check out WheelSmith DH13. They're single butted 2.0/2.3mm at J-bent and only 1g more then regular 14G.
don't bent 'emQubeley
Jan 19, 2004 9:15 AM
I would love to use 24 spokes. The problem is I already have the rim. So changing number of spoke really isn't an option.
I would like build strongest wheel possible based on 16 spoke.

"Yes 14G spokes have thicker cross section, so they will be less flexy, however the beauty of CX-rays that you may use more spokes and still end up with less air drag."

So would 14G be my best choice based on my situation? Hub will be Dura-Ace high flange track.
BTW: I am 20lb lighter than you.
re: spokescyclopathic
Jan 20, 2004 5:58 AM
get Wheelsmith DH13 and use brass nipples. WS DH13 are single butted /2.3mm at J-bent/, stiffer, more durable and only 1g more per spoke then 14G. If you have trouble to get them talk to Mike from www.oddsandendos.com he'd be glad to sell, his prices are very competetive. Hope it works out for you good luck.
CX-Rays would be my choice...DaveLobster
Jan 19, 2004 11:10 AM
I would go with the CX-Rays over anything else for this application. The CX-Rays are the strongest spokes available. Since I have started using Sapim spokes, I wouldn't use anything else, although I use the cheaper Lazer model (never had one break). CX-Rays are the current rage for custom DH mtb wheels - not for the weight but because they are so strong.

What you want in a spoke is for it to be resiliant. 14g spokes may seem sturdier when you are holding it in your hand, but they break at the hub end because they transfer all the push/pull forces directly to the bend where it becomes work hardened and eventually breaks.

I won't lie to you - you are pushing the limits using only 16 spokes on a rear wheel. But I think it should work, especially for the track where presumably you will only ever be riding on a smooth surface. Also, track hubs tend to have wider and more equal flange spacing than your typical modern 9/10 speed freehub, which should make for a stronger wheel. Use the CX-Rays and let us know how it works out.
Ditto!lyleseven
Jan 19, 2004 12:17 PM
CX-Rays. Very, very strong...
if you need hubs...PeterRider
Jan 20, 2004 5:08 PM
I have a set of Zipp carbon hubs, 18h front / 24h rear, slotted, shimano compatible. 104g front and 216g rear.

Pierre