|Need new Bomb proof Training Rims||bimini|
Oct 27, 2003 7:13 AM
|I may have ruined my OP rims.
What is a bomb proof rim for training?
I liked the OPs so they are a strong runner but is there another rim out there that is a good value and rugged for daily training use. I have a set of race only aero Campy Shamals so speed is not the issue. Durability and value are. I am not concerned about keeping the build light weight.
If I go with the OPs I woun't need new spokes so they have this going for them. My current build is as follows:
Rims - Red OPs (look nice but now have flat spots)
Front Spokes - DT 14 Ga, 32 hole, radial / straight laced
Rear Spokes - DT 14/15 Ga, 32 hole, 3x both sides
The hubs are still Campy Chorus and in Cherry condition, but I may need to change spokes if I change rims, and I would be happier with 2x or 3x lace on the front and a skinnier and/or different lace on the non-drive side rear to ballance the tension between the sides.
Again, value and durability are key factors. A lot of the roads and MUTs I ride daily are not in great shape and sh!t happens.
|how about a tandem rim?||DougSloan|
Oct 27, 2003 7:18 AM
|They use these on tandems and touring bikes:
|Good idea, but I want to use my 32 hole Chorus hubs||bimini|
Oct 27, 2003 7:34 AM
|And my rear has a 130 mm spacing. I want a durable wheel but I want to keep my skinny 23 cm racing tires. (I'm a fan of Vredestein TriComps). I' still like to go fact when I train, it's just that I don't climb any mountains so weight is not an issue and I already have a set of aero race wheels. If there is an true aerodynamic bomb proof rim for a great price that can be used with standard 32 hole hubs that would be perfect, but I would settle for a non-aero rim that is bomb proof and a good value.
I left out that I am 180# and plan on dropping at least 10# in the off season so I can be under 170 # at the start of the next race season.
Oct 27, 2003 7:37 AM
|I have a set of Dura Ace/CXP-30s and they are pretty tough, I hear the same is true about the 33s although I have never used them.|
|true; good choice nm||DougSloan|
Oct 27, 2003 8:02 AM
Oct 27, 2003 9:20 AM
|I have the 33's for training, got them from Colorado at least 5 years ago. I have had the spokes tightened but the wheels never needed to be trued. I am a 200 lb plus rider.|
|re: Need new Bomb proof Training Rims||_jim_|
Oct 27, 2003 8:26 AM
|check out the velocity deep v. it's also available in a variety of colors. velocityusa.com|
|Nothing wrong with Open Pros||lyleseven|
Oct 27, 2003 8:38 AM
|They just keep on tickin! A little heavy for racing, but training is great.|
|Nothing wrong with Open Pros||Banky|
Oct 27, 2003 9:23 AM
|I had Open Pro's and bent them beyond repair in less than two years.|
|Open Pros a little heavy?||Kerry Irons|
Oct 27, 2003 6:42 PM
|Open Pros weigh 420-425 gm each. Velocity Aeroheads weigh about 410. Do you know of any reasonably durable rim that weighs significantly less than this? To my knowledge, only the AC 350s are advertised as significantly lighter, and there have been durability problems reported by several users. IMO, no one has demonstrated that you can go much below this weight without getting sketchy.|
|I been using a MA 3(36 spoke) in the rear.||the bull|
Oct 27, 2003 9:51 AM
|They seem pretty stong.
Here is my logic though.
Any rim can get messed up, it only takes one pothole at the right speed and angle.
An MA-3 is 30 bucks.
If it gets messed up I can replace it, but it is still pretty stong.
Open pros are strong.
Cxp-33 are stronger.
But the MA 3 is cheap.
If you can build your own wheels like I do it is not much skin to slap a new hoop in there for 30 bucks.
|Does it come in 32 hole?||bimini|
Oct 27, 2003 10:16 AM
|I want to reuse my sweet 32 hole chorus hubs.
All rims will dent or flatten if you hit them hard enough. I like the idea of cheap rims for the wheels I use everyday.
Does the MA-3 have the same diameter at the nipples so I can reuse my old spokes?
And, yes I don't blame OP or any rim for the flat spot. It was clearly a self inflict. The rims came out better than I did. I ended up doing a superman over the top of the bars at 20+ MPH on rough concrete. Fortunely I was wearing a LS jersey and tights and polypro undies or the Road rash would have been much worse. The jersey is a goner.
|Yes, but||the bull|
Oct 27, 2003 3:49 PM
|The spoke lengths are 1 mm diferent.
It could work as 1 mm is not that much and it is longer( I would try it if it were me).
You can use the same nipples as your open pro.
MA 3 for standard shimano or campy hub
3X drive side = 295mm
3X left side = 297mm
Open pro 3X
294mm for the drive and 296mm for left
Oct 28, 2003 6:12 AM
|This solution is high on my list. 1mm won't be a problem.
Do you know of an e-tailer that has a good deal on these at the moment?
I will also be checking the local LBS's to see if they have a good deal on these
|Check Excel sports.nm||the bull|
Oct 28, 2003 9:29 AM
|Velocity Deep V.. it's the strongest sub 600 gram rim avail.||russw19|
Oct 27, 2003 10:17 AM
|Some Velocity issues||Smiker|
Oct 27, 2003 9:20 PM
|I've never owned a velocity rim. SO take this all with a grain of salt. But velocity rims always seem to have soft sidewalls, denting easily. True, this is more of an issue on MTB rims than road rims, but I was involved in a bad group crash this year where the first person to go down had Velocity Aeroheat AT rims, which crumpled as they hit a pothole. 4 people went to the emergency room.
Like I said, this is my personal opinion. But I think Fir and Mavic make better rims for training and most other purposes.
|Beg to differ, very strong rim||pitt83|
Oct 28, 2003 5:13 AM
|I've taco'ed a Mavic X317 rim and never an Aeroheat. Been riding them for 3 years now and never had a problem. 14Ga straights laced w/ XT.
My road wheels have taken quite a bit of daily use / abuse. Hit a curb without damaging them. Aeroheads laced with 14Ga straights to Ultegra. I've never had a problem with these. The same stuff laced to Open Pro built by the same wheel builder had trouble breaking non-drive spokes. The stock CXP which came on that bike were terrible.
IMHO: Best value in cycling components are these rims.
PS: I'm 6'4 and weigh 230 in season.
|re: Need new Bomb proof Training Rims||Eric_H|
Oct 27, 2003 10:26 AM
|Try the Ambrosio Excellence. It is 480 grams including eyelets, Mavic weights are usually published without eyelets. So, it is a little heavier than the Open Pro but in my opinion it is finished much nicer, with an array of anodized colors. And they will not suffer from the dreaded Open Pro clicking. The CXP33 is a nice rim for training, but I prefer a box section rim for training because it does not require long stem tubes. This is much better if you are on a group ride and have the horrible day of two or three flats and need to borrow a tube.
As for spoking, use 14/15/14 or 14/17/14 in the front. On the rear, I am a big fan of 14/15/14 on the drive side and 14/17/14 on the non-drive to balance the tension. Since I have started using the Revolutions on the non-drive side I have not had a single wheel require re-truing or break a spoke.
Oct 27, 2003 4:56 PM
|Don't use the old spokes!! Always use new ones. They are the cheapest component of the wheel building process and not worth using them twice.|
|Good spokes cost 30 bucks!||the bull|
Oct 27, 2003 5:30 PM
|I would reuse my spokes if they were still in good shape!
How do spokes go bad?
|Good spokes cost 30 bucks!||torquecal|
Oct 27, 2003 7:16 PM
|How can you tell if they're "still in good shape?"
Spokes undergo a full compression, full relaxation cycle with every revolution. Added up over time that's an amazing amount of stress on a relatively small slice of metal. It's easy to see metal fatigue when something like a spoon is bent ten to 20 times at a ninety degree angle, it's harder to see when the stress is inline, even though the stress has been repeated thousands of times.
Personally, I'd vote for replacing the spokes.
|"still in good shape"||the bull|
Oct 27, 2003 8:16 PM
|I agree with ya all but maybe ya dont understand what I am saying.
Still in good shape: If I just built the wheel this year and hit a pot hole and damaged the rim.
They are my beater training wheels.
If a spoke on my 3x did break while riding I would wrap it and loosen the brake and bring it on home.
Then I would install the new spoke.
NOT racing wheels - beat ass training wheels here.
My front wheel is a old 32 open cd 4/Dura-ace hub/dt swiss spokes.
Rear is MA3 rebuild.
I did however use new spokes on my rebuild because the wheels were old, but if i dinged it tomarrow you better belive I would just slap a new hoop in there.
What ever rolls for cheap.
I smile as I hit potholes! :)
Oct 27, 2003 10:24 PM
|Read all of the books on wheel building and they tell you to go with new spokes. (Shraner, Jobst, Zinn, etc.) Re seating old spokes in new hubs or different hubs is an issue, and unless they are relatively new they have been subjected to many micro impacts on the old hub/rim. If you just plan to beat them up and aren't worried about breakage, use the old ones. My time and life is too valuable to fool with the old ones.|
|Enough allready!||the bull|
Oct 28, 2003 4:02 AM
|We are talking about a rim swap!
Not a new wheel build!
Not using old spokes in new hubs or different hubs!
Just changing the rim.
Do you swap out your spokes every year?
I was just thinking about all the micro impacts they must have by now.
|Wheels are a couple years old and have about 10K on them.||bimini|
Oct 28, 2003 6:41 AM
|If I can find rims locally I will keep the same spokes and just swap out rims so I can be on sweet rims again quickly. I hate riding the old rims now. If I hear anything besides a nice steady hum it bugs me to no end. I may go for a complete rebuild this winter when the snow is too deep to ride. If I have to go the mail order route & will probably get new spokes for the front and the non drive side rear. (and maybe the drive side rear). I am not happy with the radial front. It feels mushy when I get up on and over the bars to sprint. It is so mushy the bike feels unstable when I am way over the bars. My previous set of training wheels were Reflex with a 3X 14/15 front build. It was much more solid. The new training wheels were an ebay bargain and came with the radial lace.
I'm not happy with the difference in tension between the drive and non-drive side rear. I have problems with nipples rattling loose now and then due to the low tension. So I will probable go with 14/17's with a 3x cross to equallize the tension. (or would I be better off with a 14/15 and a different lace?
If I were a Pro wheel builder I would change out the spokes because "that is the way it is done" and the % cost add would be minimal and I would make a little margin on the spokes. But I'm a cheapskate looking to repair what was a good set of training wheels. Spokes look good and have not stretched to the point that there is no more adjustment nor poking through the nipple nor breaking at the bends. If I do break a spoke, no big deal, I have 31 left and have more than once "limped" home by loosing the two adjcent spokes and twisting the broken spoke out of the nipple.
|re: New spokes||Eric_H|
Oct 28, 2003 4:58 PM
|You might want to re-read Jobst Brandt. He suggests not swapping out the spokes, because the current spokes have been stress-relieved through use. His theory on spoke breakage is that it happens as a result of residual stress left over from forming the elbow of the spoke. These stress risers cause the breakage. His belief is that used spokes have "passed the stress relief test".|
|Ambrosio Evolutions, same ERD (nm)||Ye Olde Balde One|
Oct 27, 2003 11:13 PM
|How about the new DTswiss RR1.1...||WOY|
Oct 29, 2003 10:26 PM
|Light 415g and apparently very strong also. The ERD is 599mm. Not sure about $$$ though.