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Tubie Newbe (kinda long)...(16 posts)

Tubie Newbe (kinda long)...TFerguson
Oct 19, 2003 6:10 PM
Been working with wheels for a couple of years now and figure it's time to experience the fun and frustration of tubular. Picked up a set of used Velocity Deep-V tubular (anybody know how long ago they made these?) on DA rear and AC Micro front. Going to use these as my crit/good road, race wheels and on close to the car/house training rides only.

I should have been paying attention to the forum, but generally I've ignored any postings on tubies. I've searched the archive and have some knowledge; probably enough to be dangerous.

First, what tire recommendations? Looking for something commonly available (read cheap deals). Recommendations on reasonably priced seem to be, in order, Conti Comps, Vit Corsa, Conti Sprint plus very mixed opinions on the various Tufos? Notice that a lot of the tubies for sale are lass than 23, any reason they should be narrower than clinchers? What diameter will best fit in the curve of the Deep-V for a strong bond?

Valve extenders seem to be a continuous problem. Do any tubies come with a longer stem? Will I need extenders for the 30mm Deep-V?

I take it that a lot of the advantage of a tubie comes from the higher pressures. Any pumps other than the Silcas that will deliver these presures?

I've read some of the gluing instructions and would probably use them with the following order of preference. I would like to learn to glue before trying the tape.

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.21.html
http://www.jimlangley.net/wrench/tubular.html
http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/tubular.shtm
http://www.zipp.com/TechInfo/wheel_cycling_101/

Anything I'm missing?

Thanks a bunch,
TF
re: Tubie Newbe (kinda long)...Spunout
Oct 20, 2003 3:57 AM
Just because tubulars can handle higher pressures, no reason why you need to run them that high. Tubulars probably ride very sweet at lower pressures, better than clinchers. You won't have pinch-flat problems with tubulars.

Tufos remind me of the Clement of the '80s, once it was full of gunk and flat you threw it out. Regular tubulars are repairable, learn how.

That's all I can offer, I don't use them anymore.
don't use Tufosweiwentg
Oct 20, 2003 6:14 AM
Tufos have pretty high rolling resistance. don't use 'em. I get the feeling that any set of high-end clinchers roll better than that.
also, you probably will need valve extenders. you can either get the type that you put teflon tape onto the threads valve and screw it on, you you remove the valve core, screw the extender in, and then screw the valve core into the extender. I prefer the latter.
source of info re rolling resistance? nmDougSloan
Oct 20, 2003 6:58 AM
my personal, very subjective experience ...weiwentg
Oct 20, 2003 8:23 AM
and yes, I could easily be wrong. I did hear someone on this forum mention something like that, though.
I've got a front zip 440 with a continental sprinter for next race season. I'll let you know how it goes.
source of info re rolling resistance? nmMR_GRUMPY
Oct 20, 2003 8:51 AM
Can't say for sure, but I remember an article on either Velonews.com or cycling news.com, about a year ago. It was something about the constructuon of the tire. They also said that the rolling resistance problem wasn't valid for track use because the tires are so light and the races so short.
I should have saved it when I read it. Sorry.
trackDougSloan
Oct 20, 2003 9:10 AM
I could see track use not having a rolling resistance issue, also, because of the higher pressures used. Wouldn't all tires be about the same at 200 psi on a smooth surface?

Doug
mine were road tires, S3 litesweiwentg
Oct 20, 2003 9:38 AM
and I only pumped them up to around 100-120, as much as I'd pump a clincher. my bike is enough of a bone rattler as it is.
ProbablyMR_GRUMPY
Oct 20, 2003 9:57 AM
I would hate to ride a tire on the road that was pumped up to 200 psi.
Quite a few of the Tufo track tires are under 200g
tried it (high pressure on the road)DougSloan
Oct 20, 2003 10:12 AM
I rode the Climb to Kaiser on tubulars pumped to 180 psi one year. The roads for the most part are pretty good, but that was a bit much. Even relatively smooth chip seal felt like riding down the center of railroad tracks.

However, the worst part wasn't the ride, it was the grip! They stuck about as well as wet steel. They felt great out of the saddle climbing, but descending the twisty mountain roads was damn spooky. I nearly lost it several times, with the front and rear unpredictably washing out on me. Felt just about how Simoni looked during his crash in the TdF.

Doug
I have had a great experience with Tufosniteschaos
Oct 22, 2003 11:07 AM
Most of my riding is spent in prep for crits that involve a lot of out of the saddle acceleration. If there is more rolling resistance, you won't feel it after 30 minutes, because I sure didn't. One thing I like about the Special S33s is that cornering grip in the wet and the dry.

Also, you don't have to take the tire off to repair them. Yes, they can be repaired. I use 1/4 of the latex sealer and it works every time. After 2500 miles I've never had a flat, but I have seen places on the sidewall where the sealer stopped a pinhole.

A lot of my friends do TT on Tufos and do pretty well, so the rolling resistance argument must not be that strong.
re: Tubie Newbe (kinda long)...hudsonite
Oct 20, 2003 9:42 AM
I used tubulars for years, but went to clinchers based upon LBS pressure. Now I going back to tubulars.

I just ordered up enough tubular tires for a few years. I decided to go with the Conti comps. I purchased 4 22's and 4 25's. The 25's are for training and very long distance, the 22's are for weekend group rides.

Conti's have a good reputation for resisting flats. They can also be repaired, unlike the Tufo's. As I will fix them if they flat, this was important.

I went with Conti's because I trust their tires. I have used various models over the years and they always worked for me. Some people love the vittoria and veloflex. But I decided to go with the brand I know and trust.

I do not remember the brand of tubular I used to use, other than they were silk from Italy. Very good memories of those tires.

The key to mouting tubulars, if I remember correctly:

1) New tires, stretch them first for a couple of days on rims.
2) New rims: coat the rim with three thin layers of glue, waiting about 24 hours between layers. You could probably wait less time, but I normally did this during the late winter months.

3) lightly coat the tire with glue.

4) Stretch and place the tire onto the rim about 2 to 3 hours after the last layer of glue on the rim. Straighten the tire on rim.

5) Blow up the tire to about 60psi and make sure it is straight. If not fix it immediately.
6) Inflate the tire to maximum pressure and leave it for a day.

7) Go have a ride.

I always carried a spare with me. Never had to use it on the road. The only times I can recall getting a flat was near the house (twice in 5 years). The spare should have some glue applied.

Tubular tires are great fun to ride on. The ride is different than clinchers. I would not say better, but just different.

Mounting a tubular tire is no where as easy as mounting a clincher. But if you enjoy messing with your bike, it is a fun part of cycling.

Have fun on your tubulars.
Conti's have a thick butyl tube......MR_GRUMPY
Oct 20, 2003 10:09 AM
and with the nylon caseing, are pretty flatproof. If you start having trouble with the base tape coming loose, buy something called "barge cement". It will do a good job of holding the rim strip on. Regular Conti glue doesn't work the best.
re: Tubie Newbe (kinda long)...MShaw
Oct 20, 2003 10:11 AM
I used to ride Contis. Loved the Comp22s! Too bad they're $80/ea retail... Sprinters are great. Long-wearing, sticky (even in the rain), and fairly light.

I have a friend that imports Tufos, so I get Tufos now. I can't say I really notice that big a difference between them and anything else I've ridden lately, so...

If you're training on them, I'd say stick to the Tufo S22s or the Conti Sprinters. (S22s are about $20 ea)

I've worn Sprinters down to the cords without flatting them. Tough tires.

You're best off if you have someone look over your shoulder when you first start gluing on tires. Best to have another pair of eyes making sure that you do it right...

Mike
re: Tubie Newbe (kinda long)...lithiapark
Oct 20, 2003 8:14 PM
I've tried Conti Comps, Conti Sprinters, and most recently Tufo S3 Lite 195. I run 120psi in the Comp 22's, and Sprinter, and 140in the Tufo, 19mm. They seem to roll the same, I've heard it said that someone tested the Tufos vs Comp and the Comps rolled better but I havn't been able to track down the data so I don't know if it is a myth or not. I have run the Tufo with sealant and hadn't a flat in 1500+ miles until I ran over a sharp object this weekend and cut the front tire sidewall and it abruptly went completely flat. I was going downhill, straight fortunately, at 35+mph, and the Tufo glue tape held the tire on quite well. This was the first time I'd used the tape. It works, and was easy to do the first time-certainly less messy than the first time I glued on a tubie:). Tufo valve extenders are better than others (no name brand) I've tried-easy to use and hold air. Rims used were Zipp 340 and 404, all tires fit these well, don't know about Velocity rims.
I don't like TUFO glue tape.....Synchronicity
Oct 21, 2003 10:40 PM
It works fine at first. But then after a while the ugly gunk just keeps slowly oozing out the sides between the rim and base-tape of the tire. Its relentless. I used that stuff before I tried using rim cement.
Now I use rim cement & it stays cleaner looking.