|Campy Eurus vs Mavic Kysrium SSC SL||Xeo|
Sep 22, 2003 12:30 PM
|I am interested in both of these wheels but alas I can only get one, could any of you who have these wheels give me your experience and/or criticism.
I am leaning towards the Eurus due to the fact that they have 30mm profiles and would seem to be faster. Both are around 1500 g and that is definitely lighter than the Bontrager Race Lites that I currently have on my Trek 5200.
I appreciate any and all responses.
|re: Campy Eurus vs Mavic Kysrium SSC SL||scorpionking|
Sep 22, 2003 1:01 PM
|You need a drug test if you honestly believe either of the two wheelsets you named are anywhere near 1500 grams real world weight with skewers attached or that either is meaningfully lighter than Bontrager Race Lites.
The weights you see for the SL's and Eurus wheels are what is commonly known in the industry as a manufacturers suggested target weight. This weight has little to do with what the wheelsets actually weigh in real life. Coloradocyclist.com weighs all their prebuilt wheels being sold and according to them, the real weight of SL's with attached included skewers is about 1725 grams. The real weight of Eurus with skewers is about 1715 grams. What's worse, neither of these wheels gets any meaningful weight savings over conventional wheels with weight savings at the rim. Almost all their weight reduction in recent years has been accomplished by using lighter spokes, fewer spokes and lighter hubs. In fact the rims for these two wheelsets are pretty darn heavy considering the price of the wheels and how relatively non aerodynamic they are, especially the SL's with that ridiculous 25mm deep boxed shaped rim, neither aero, nor light. Save yourself a load of cash and put that wasted $500 or $600 towards a pair of topflight tubular carbon wheels like the AC Classic Carbon tubulars - now you are talking weight savings at the rim and improved aerodynamics!
|re: Campy Eurus vs Mavic Kysrium SSC SL||Xeo|
Sep 22, 2003 2:40 PM
|I am interested in American Classic but looking on their website, the cheapest Carbon wheelset is over $1000, could you point me in the direction of a $500-600 dollar AC Carbon wheelset?|
Sep 22, 2003 1:16 PM
|I have Campy Nucleons and Ksyriums. Both are very solid, reasonably fast wheels. Both, from what I have heard, are more durable than Bontragers.
Here is a difference that may or may not matter to you -- tire changes. Some tires won't go on a Campy wheel without an advanced degree in mechanical engineering and about 15 minutes of frustrating work to change a tire. Michelins are nearly impossible to mount or dismount. With Ksyriums, even Michelins are off and on, frequently without tools. I suspect the depth of the rim channel is to blame, with Campy being shallower, allow less stretch over the other side.
If you never flat, no big deal. However, the issue is important enough to me that I nearly always choose to use my Kyriums in events where changes might be necessary. It really is a dramatic difference.
Other than that, the main difference will be that the Campy is slightly less affected by cross winds (and they say "Campagnolo" on them).
Sep 22, 2003 2:42 PM
|I have had a lot of experience changing MTB tubeless tires on my Mavic Crossmax and so am pretty savvy with difficult rims so that really isn't too much of a concern.
What I am interested in is getting the best possible wheelset, with the best performance, with a good value.
|about the same||DougSloan|
Sep 22, 2003 2:48 PM
|I think performance and quality are about the same.
These aren't tubeless, though, and therein lies the problem. When you go to pry on that last section of tire, it's very easy to pinch the tube when it is that tight a fit. Not a problem with tubeless. Since the quality and performance are about equal, this would make the decision for me.
|Oh, best performance and good value - not your original Q!||Kerry Irons|
Sep 22, 2003 4:10 PM
|That's not the original question you asked. You asked about how to choose between two boutique wheels that offer no performance advantage over a wheel built with standard components. Now that you say you want best performance and good value, your answer is about $300 for a Record/Velocity Aerohead or OpenPro wheelset, built by a good set of hands. Both Excel and Colorado Cyclist offer this wheel for this price and have a good reputation for building wheels. You may be able to find a good wheel builder locally by asking around. In either case, you would miss out on the flash of factory wheels, but you would get all of the performance PLUS a wheel that can be easily maintained by you or your local builder.|
|re: Oh, best performance and good value - not your original Q!||_jim_|
Sep 22, 2003 8:13 PM
|kerry, i'm having some cookie problems... can you lend a hand?|
|Huh? (nm)||Kerry Irons|
Sep 23, 2003 4:25 PM
Sep 24, 2003 12:44 AM
|I have the Eurus and ride with Michelin Axail Pro Lights and don't really have any trouble mounting tires.|
|Thats just crazy!||the bull|
Sep 25, 2003 3:11 AM
|I still have bilsters on my fingers from trying to mount my Pro races on those things!
I dont even need tools for my Mavics to get them on or off(Heliums or Kysriums)!
Both wheelsets are nice they both are stiff and light.
The Eurus are more aero for sure!
I think the Kyruims are stronger(but both are strong)and could be ridden everyday.
|American Classics for you...||deHonc|
Sep 22, 2003 4:25 PM
|Hey Marc, |
Check out Pez cycle news (internet version) - they directly test your two choices against the American Classic CR-420 wheelset - an initial test and another test 5000km later. The AC wheels kill both!!! These wheels ARE lighter than both your choices - more aero and easy to fix/replace spokes etc. I'm getting some for race wheels soon. All the reviews I can find are very favourable - and they cost around $1000.00 Australian which is $650.00 US. Its your money but you should check them out.
|American Classics for you...||Xeo|
Sep 22, 2003 10:22 PM
|Thanks for the link to the Pez cycle news (a good resource). The articles pertaining to the AC wheels are making me extremely interested in them.
|Cane Creek Volos, another quiet performer. nm||Spunout|
Sep 23, 2003 3:50 AM
|Cane Creek Volos, another quiet performer.||russw19|
Sep 23, 2003 3:23 PM
|I am about to put up a pair of these in the classifieds here. They have a Campy freehub body and are the Ti spoked version. If anyone is interested, look for them in the classifieds in the next day or so.
|Geez russw19, you were praising them not long ago. nm||Spunout|
Sep 24, 2003 4:02 AM
|Geez russw19, you were praising them not long ago. nm||russw19|
Sep 24, 2003 7:36 AM
|Don't get the wrong idea... I still have a set for my Dura Ace bike... I am selling the set for my Campy bike. I wanted to try new things... so I got a set of Am. Classic 420's for my Campy Bike.
It's the nice thing about working in a bike shop is that you get to try new things all the time... it's also kinda like the curse too... you have to try new things to keep up with the customers so when they ask you about them, you know what you are talking about.
If it matters, I also have a pair of Ksyriums, a pair of Bontrager Race X-Lites on order, and a pair of Eurus G3's, not to mention another 2 pairs of "non-boutique" wheels. I think the next to go will be the K's, probably after I get the Bontys in and ride them a bit. I live in a small apartment, I don't have the room to have all the bike stuff I have unless I start to get rid of some of my furniture.
|Consider American Classics / Aeroheads||cdhbrad|
Sep 23, 2003 9:16 AM
|I looked at the 420s, but chose the Aerohead rims instead, mainly for ease of service. American Classic won't sell anyone a 420 rim alone, not even their dealers, so you will have to send them back to American Classic for service.
The wheels I chose have the same hubset as the 420s, just different spokes/rims, the Aerohead rim weighs in at 420 grams, same as the rim on the 420s. They are the quitest hubs I have ever used. These replaced a set of Mavic Heliums and were several ounces lighter, front and rear than the Heliums. $400 at my LBS.
|Consider American Classics / Aeroheads||scorpionking|
Sep 23, 2003 8:00 PM
|Why in the world would a wheel which need fixing have to be sent all the way back to the original maker simply because they don't sell the rims???? Any local BS can work on a 420 wheelset quite easily as well as many do it yourselfers. One of the biggest selling points of the AC CR 350 and 420 wheelsets is the fact they are so easily serviced unlike crap like Campy wheels with hidden nipples and other stupid stiff.|
|Not for maintenance, but rim replacement||cdhbrad|
Sep 24, 2003 3:25 AM
|Sorry, I wasn't clear on the comment about factory work. American Classic won't sell 420 rims separate from the wheels, so if a rim needs replacing, it has to go back to the factory. Otherwise, you are correct, they don't use exotic spokes, etc.|
|Not for maintenance, but rim replacement||scorpionking|
Sep 24, 2003 4:16 AM
|How often does one have to replace a rim on a clincher wheelset. Unless the person building the wheel has no clue what they are doing, this seems like a very poor reason not to buy a firms product. Using this same reasoning no one should ever buy any of the prebuilt wheels from Mavic, Campagnolo, Spinergy, etc, because none of those companies sell their prebuilt wheel rims to dealers either.|
|Actually, that's not true...||russw19|
Sep 24, 2003 7:43 AM
|I can get replacement rims from Campy and Mavic, I have never tried to get one from Spinergy, but I bet I can. The replacement rims are ungodly expensive, but I can get them.
As for the American Classics, you can always use a Velocity Deep V rim as an aftermarket replacement. It's slightly heavier, but is the same depth and width and has the same ERD as the American Classic. I would be convinced that the American Classic is just a modified and slightly lighter version of this rim. (If there is any difference at all...)
|Actually, that's not true...||scorpionking|
Sep 24, 2003 6:09 PM
|No it isn't. The Velocity Deep V rim is exactly 30 mm's deep. The AC 420 rim is exactly 34 mm's deep, they are not even close to being the same depth and the spoke lengths will be different. The AC rim is a proprietary rim manufactured by them, and their partner in the Far East. Velocity has nothing to do with it.|
|Cool! Thanks for the correction! nm.||russw19|
Sep 24, 2003 8:16 PM
|Dave Thomas, Mike Garcia & others...||powergyoza|
Sep 25, 2003 2:50 PM
|...also have an excellent reputation over the internet. With Mike @ http://www.oddsandendos.com you get the AC hubs & IRD rims (30g heavier brother to the AC rims) super cheap! With Dave @ http://speeddream.com you get White Industry hubs (my preference) with either AC or Velocity rims cheaper than the Mavics or Campys.|| |