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Campy Record possibly shifting inaccuracy....(10 posts)

Campy Record possibly shifting inaccuracy....divve
Sep 10, 2003 4:35 AM
Hi, I've been having some difficulty adjusting this (new) system. I can make it work well in the rear when in the large chainring, but it won't work as cleanly when in the small ring and shifting to the larger (Ti) cogs in the rear. I've gone through the hole systems and have found that the inaccuracy lies solely in the Ergo shifter. I don't know whether this is by design, lack of proper tolerances, or even a defect. Therefore I need your help verifying the below:

When shifting from 5th gear in the direction of the RED arrow into 4th, does your chain align more to the outside of the 4th cog in comparison to shifting from 3rd to 4th gear in the direction of the GREEN arrow?



To elaborate, in my system there's a difference of 0.5mm between the up and down shifting directions. The difference is practically consistent in all gears so I can adjust for it quite easily. As mentioned previously the problem becomes more apparent when in the smaller chainring. Probably due to the more inward chain line the "error" becomes comparatively greater in the larger cassette cogs, therefore causing excessive chain noise and even skipping at times. I can't resolve the problem either by adjusting for proper rear shifting when in the small chainring. It will then in turn cause problems when in the large chainring. The chain will then tend to shift too far outward when in the smaller cogs in the rear.

Thanks in advance for your help.
maybe normal, maybe something is bent...Spunout
Sep 10, 2003 6:09 AM
Hangar or derailleur is bent? Have you crashed? Cage is a bit lopsided? This is an alignment issue in the RD geometry, not an ergolever issue. The ergolever doesn't know what chainring you are in! The different angles when in the different chainrings are suspect. Check all cables and housings, oil that pathway under your BB.

FWIW, I tune my system to be as far upward (in the direction of the green arrow) as possible without noise. You'll hear the pickup teeth click when you get there.

What are the issues? Is it skipping? Ghost shifting? If it is just a bit noisy, welcome to 10S systems. JUst ride faster, you won't hear it.
maybe normal, maybe something is bent...divve
Sep 10, 2003 7:43 AM
No, nothing is bent. I checked that and everything is new so no damage. The deviation is definitely coming from the Ergo shifter. I verified this by completely disconnecting the cable and marking a spot. The cable never returns to the same position when I make a shift coming from the other direction. The deviation is consistent however and always practically the same amount.

>The different angles when in the different chainrings are suspect.

This isn't so strange. The difference in chain line between the large and small chainring will cause variations in lateral chain tension. This only becomes problematic however when your chain line is off, during cross chaining, or when tolerances are very tight... perhaps it's just a matter of some more braking-in therefore my questions here to verify whether it's a defect or not.

>Check all cables and housings, oil that pathway under your BB.

Cables are original Campy and brand new. I also replaced the new ones just to make sure. The guide under the BB is super slick.

>What are the issues? Is it skipping? Ghost shifting? If it is just a bit noisy, >welcome to 10S systems.

The issue is noise due to the chain not aligning with a rear cog, as it should do. I understand there's an allowance for a small error and it sounds okay within that margin, but sometimes depending on the gear and direction of the shift it sounds almost as if it's going to skip but you don't actually feel it....

> JUst ride faster, you won't hear it.
Not acceptable. I mean even my Shimano DA or XTR on my MTB isn't that crappy:)

On the up side I really like the fast and crisp shifting. Every gear kicks in immediately with a clearly defined click on the shifter. In comparison Shimano now feels quite mushy.
BTW,divve
Sep 10, 2003 7:57 AM
I also took off the back cover from the Ergo shifter and I can see there's some float in the mechanism depending on the direction of shift.
BTW,charlieboy
Sep 10, 2003 8:13 AM
Further to my other reply, this float in the shifter and that in the upper pulley wheel is there to allow for minor discrepancies in setup; otherwise anything other than perfect alignment would cause a jam. A little bit of play helps.
re: Campy Record possibly shifting inaccuracy....charlieboy
Sep 10, 2003 8:07 AM
FWIW I have the same 'problem' with a Veloce/Centaur setup. And it's even more fun with a triple.

If it's not skipping don't worry about it - you just have to get the best mix of options that works adequately for both chainrings. So that means fiddling about with the barrel adjusters both on your derailleur and downtube in big and small chainrings until you either fall asleep or get nearly happy! Does campy still suggest doing this on the fourth sprocket, even for the 10 speed?

The upper jockey wheel in campag has some side to side play, I presume to allow for the difference in chainline between the two chainrings. This side to side 'slop' may account for the perceived difference in movement between up and down shifts. The bottom pulley wheel has none.

You might also want to check the A screw setting, you know the one underneath that sets the distance of the top pulley wheel from the cogset.

Hope that helps;)
Okay, thanks both for your help.divve
Sep 10, 2003 10:15 AM
Too bad I haven't found a Campy shop nearby yet to make more comparisons. It's all Shimanoland here as far as the horizon reaches:)

In a couple of weeks I'll be able to test the new Record Ultra 10 shifters and the carbon rear derailleur. If there's any noticeable improvements I'll let you know.
re: Campy Record possibly shifting inaccuracy....divve
Sep 11, 2003 3:50 AM
>Does campy still suggest doing this on the fourth sprocket, even for the 10 speed?

Yes, but I think it's more a guideline to get you in the ballpark. As you do I also shoot for the best compromise across all gears.
re: Campy Record possibly shifting inaccuracy....rcarbs
Sep 13, 2003 11:12 AM
Go to www.campyonly.com and ask Tim. He is very knowledgeable and detailed in his answers. Adjusted properly my campy stuff runs like an old swiss watch.
re: Campy Record possibly shifting inaccuracy....divve
Sep 13, 2003 11:57 PM
I did a couple of days ago and he provided very good info and also confirmed that some amount of inaccuracy is normal, just not the amount in my system. I'm going to check and replace a few things again (3rd time), to see whether that helps. Thanks.