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LORD JESUS, Scott!!(6 posts)

LORD JESUS, Scott!!OldEdScott
Aug 27, 2003 5:40 AM
Oh wait, sorry, HOLY MOSES!!

Since you're ebaying for Suntour now, CHECK THIS:

Buy 'em! Git 'em! Use 'em! Be the coolest kid in San Diego!
re: LORD JESUS, Scott!!sn69
Aug 28, 2003 5:40 AM
When did these pop up? Crappers...gotta go fly. I'm planning on running bullhorns on the new rig (I like 'em, they're comfy for me, and they're different). I've got to think about how these might work on the bike with that set-up.

Aug 28, 2003 5:50 AM
OKAY, Ed. You're evil, and now I'm in your debt. ...Stinkin' "buy it now" feature. I'm supposed to be thinking about Vmce, Critical Field Length and the APU fire suppression system in the mighty C-9, not Suntour Porn.

Incidentally, check out all of Andy's website. He's got some good stuff.

Gotta think about a 7 sped casette on an older pair of CXP-21 rims with '98 105 hubs. Hmmmm. Spacer required?
Good man! You are now the proud owner ofOldEdScott
Aug 28, 2003 6:21 AM
one of the rarest and most lusted-after items in Suntour's storied history of innovations! All retro-dom is envious! NOS too!

Here, read this from the iBOB list:

[BOB] Re: Suntour Command Shifters
Sun, 12 Nov 2000 10:17:32 EST

Previous message: [BOB] levers/bars for small hands.
Next message: [BOB] Re: Suntour Command Shifters
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What follows is a note I sent to Grant Petersen for possible inclusion in the
Reader right after Frank Berto's "Sunset on Suntour" about a year ago, I'd
guess. If Frank is reading this please take no offense. Mr. Berto you are my
number one reference and you are the alpha dog of bicycles.


In Frank Berto's report on Suntour he makes no mention of Suntour's Command
Shifters. Those wingnut-like shifters mounted just inside the brake levers of
a road bike and were Suntour's option to Shimano's STI and Campy's Ergo
shifters in the early 1990s. Initially large and clunky 7 speed units they
evolved into more refined mountain and road versions and then briefly into 8
speeds before the "sunset".

In comparison to STI and Ergo shifters they offered many advantages:
* a simple straightforward design
* light weight, on par with bar-end shifters
* approximate visual indication of cog and chainring choice
* a friction option
* initial low cost
* reasonable ability to be serviced
* isolated shift and brake functions

The left side was a Power Ratchet design. The right side offered the choice
of either friction shifting (useful with any rear derailer) or indexing (best
results with a late vintage Suntour indexing rear derailer). Both levers were
closer at hand than with bar-end shifters or even Chris Kelly's very useful
Take Offs.

There was, however, an operational problem with Command Shifters. In order to
shift from a smaller to the larger chainring one almost certainly had to push
the lever with the hand atop the brake hood. This is at the time when one was
most likely to want one's hands in the drops i.e. increasing one's speed.
Simply put, the left hand was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The right
lever operated the rear in logical fashion.

Fortunately there was a solution to the problem and it came from Suntour many
years prior. As Frank Berto points out, in 1966 Suntour introduced its first
reverse (inverse) action front derailer, the Spirt. Other reverse action
front derailers followed for double and triple cranksets, for half-step and
alpine gearing. Over the years reverse action models included the Compe V,
the SL, the Le Tech, the AX and XC. I believe one or more of these models
came in standard action versions as well. When Command Shifters are used in
conjunction with a reverse action front derailer and a conventional action
rear derailer* shifting becomes ergonomically correct.

With either hand upshifting (going to a higher road speed at a given cadence)
is easily accomplished from either the hoods or the drops. Downshifting
(going to a lower road speed at a given cadence) is accomplished from the
hoods which is a logical hand position while slowing one's speed or climbing.

I have extensive experience with this Suntour combination and with Ergo, STI,
Kelly, bar-ends and downtube shifters. In terms of absolute mindless ease
it's hard to fault Ergo or STI. The Suntour combo I have outlined is,
nonetheless, well above the 90th percentile of ease in my opinion and could
be defended as nearly equivalent to integrated units. In all other respects
the Suntour combo is clearly superior.

Too bad Suntour never
iBOB post part 2OldEdScott
Aug 28, 2003 6:35 AM
Too bad Suntour never put their 1990s invention, Command Shifters, and their
1960s invention, reverse action front derailers, together. Just another
missed Suntour opportunity.

Command Shifters are getting increasingly hard to find but determined digging
will likely yield results. 8 speeds are the toughest to find but I think
Trips For Kids in San Rafael, California has a few 7 speed shifter sets. They
also may still have some Spirt reverse action front derailers. Grant may
still have some Suntour XC Pro short cage rear derailers but if not the
Superbe Pro or Sprint 9000 or most any other late model Suntour road or
mountain indexing unit will work fine.

By the way to some extent Kelly Take Offs also benefit from using a reverse
pull front derailer.

* Shimano recently produced a reverse action rear derailer which is of no
benefit regarding this discussion.
And yes, a 4.5 mm spacer and you're in bidness. nmOldEdScott
Aug 28, 2003 6:24 AM