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Shimano Planned Obsolescence - How much longer for 9v parts?(7 posts)

Shimano Planned Obsolescence - How much longer for 9v parts?Fez
Aug 18, 2003 6:12 AM
Given that 2004 10 speed DA is around the corner and closeouts are expected on 2003 9 speed DA, does anyone know how much longer Shimano plans to support 9 speed?

1) Is it going to be a case of scouring stores for NOS 9 speed DA pieces?

2) Will they continue to sell individual 9 speed DA replacement pieces, but not package complete groups?

3) Will DA riders have to go down the food chain to 9 speed Ultegra for replacement BB, cogs, chains, rings, shifters, hubs, etc. since Ultegra and 105 will be remain 9 speed for a few more seasons?

4) And how has Shimano handled the new XTR situation? I still see a lot of old XTR still being sold. In fact, I read Specialized still specs old style XTR derailleurs for their mtn bikes because they decided not to go with the new ones. This implies old XTR is still in production, or there is a huge existing stock of the old stuff.
re: Shimano Planned Obsolescence - How much longer for 9v parts?russw19
Aug 18, 2003 7:03 AM
Fez, I know exactly what point you are trying to get across, but I think you are jumping the gun a little.... First, Shimano went 9 speed with Dura-Ace in 1997. They still to this day have 8 speed support, but not really in the Dura-Ace line. If you need 8 speed parts, you can still find them though. So if you add in 2003, that's 7 years. And even though you have to search, you can still get 8 speed Dura-Ace parts if you look hard enough, and that's after 7 years of obsolescence. So as much as I see where you are coming from, I think we need to be a little more fair to Shimano. They will continue to make Sora in 8 speed next year by the way.

As for Specialized (and a lot of MTB manufacturers...) there was a huge overstock of XTR parts like deraileurs. It is the most common upgrade to a non-XTR bike. Same as a Dura-Ace rear derailleur. The bike companies got great discounts to use the older stuff for two reasons... buying old stock, and pairing it with lower end stuff (I will get to this in a second) But if you notice, as much as there are a ton of bikes around with older XTR rear derailleurs on them, there aren't that many bikes with an older full XTR build kit. Meaning there wasn't as much overstock with things like cranks and hubs and shifters, but just a ton of rear derailleurs.

For 2003, XTR is fully Rapid-Rise. You must use the new derailleur with the new shifters for it to work right. Shimano knows this, and that is why they made (or may be continuing to make???) older style XTR derailleurs. Bike companies like Specialized can't put a new XTR rear derailleur on as an upgrade without using the new shifters. So what they do is use the old derailleur and mate it to XT or LX shifters or Sram shifters. Otherwise they couldn't put the XTR derailleur on there.

I don't think Shimano is stupid.. in fact, look at far they have come in the cycling world in the past 15 years. They know that they have to go 10 speed to keep up with Campy, and they also know not everyone will jump on board right away. They had the same issues in 97 when they jumped to 9 speed, and there wasn't any problems that I heard of with people claiming a shortfall of older 8 speed parts at the time. In fact, I think you could still have gotten a full build kit in 8 speed Dura-Ace for the next two years without any hassle. I expect to see the same for the new 10 speed stuff.

All of this is just my observations from the past 15 years of working in shops and my best guess for what Shimano will do, but I don't think there is going to be a need to stock up on older 9 speed stuff anytime soon.

Russ
re: Shimano Planned Obsolescence - How much longer for 9v parts?divve
Aug 18, 2003 7:52 AM
Specialize also specs the older XTR rear derailleur with the new STI 03 XTR shifters. Whether it's 02 or 03 or Rapid Rise, they all work with any type of STI shifter. Only the direction of shifting is affected by the derailleur type.
Interesting... I didn't know that... thanks.. nm.russw19
Aug 18, 2003 8:08 AM
Thanks for the reply, Russ...Fez
Aug 18, 2003 8:09 AM
But regarding Shimano supporting the 8 speed line, I believe they pretty much effectively stopped around 2001 or even before. Sure they make a miscellaneous things like 7 or 8 speed cassettes, but if you blow an 8 speed specific part like a shifter, you pretty much are out of luck.

And it does make for a minor problem when you have a mint 8 speed DuraAce bike with a busted shifter and all you can do is either put a new Sora part or spend major bling to convert it to 9 speed.
DuraAce 8 speed will shift with 9spd shifterdotkaye
Aug 18, 2003 10:01 AM
you'll just have a phantom click at one end or the other..
see http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#indexing

I have an early 90's bike with 7spd 105, haven't had any problem finding parts. The only thing I can think of that might cripple it would be the 7spd index shifters breaking, but I expect those to last longer than I will.. and a moment's search reveals the Third Hand/Loose Screws has new 7spd index shifters for $30.

A year or two after 10spd is released, I'll probably upgrade my other bike to 9spd.. heh.
Listen, SHIMANO is like MICROSOFT.........Synchronicity
Aug 18, 2003 4:30 PM
There are those deranged individuals that actually like Microsoft products. And there are those that are huge fans of shimano. Many people don't like the way microsoft monopolises everything.....
I mean nearly all new bikes sold in australia have shimano parts. Nothing else.
Then you've got people with Kmart bikes saying "This bike must be good, it's got shimano gears and brakes!"
If only they knew the full story.

Just look at how many times they change mtb spiders/BB configurations. They make everything incompatible with past components. The fans claim it improves things.

Not everyone can afford campagnolo, some poeple can't even pronounce it.
I think /one/ of the reasons people like campagnolo so much is that it is something other than shimano!