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Ksyrium weight(21 posts)

Ksyrium weightjimsawino
Aug 8, 2003 10:15 AM
I have a set of 2000 or 2001 ksyriums (zicral spokes but not a shaved rim) and I'd like to know the weight. I have different skewers, so the weight without skewers will be more helpful. also, o you know if the weight gives for the new ssc sl set is including skewers (1530g)? thanks, in advance.
jim
re: Ksyrium weightrogue_CT1
Aug 8, 2003 11:12 AM
No the weight for the SL's does not include skewers. The shaved rims are 40 grams lighter per rim making your wheels around 1610 grms.
Add the skewers and you are over 1700 grams. My, that's aboutFez
Aug 8, 2003 11:33 AM
what Open Pros with Dura Ace hubs weigh.
Add the skewers and you are over 1700 grams. My, that's aboutxcmntgeek
Aug 8, 2003 1:20 PM
D/A w/ OP- a good training wheel for the first 3000 miles. Then they click with every rotation. Everyone I have talked to in person has had this happen to them. Better training rims: CXP 21's or 33's (indestructable)

Ksyriums: Stiff, acceptably light, more aero.

Let it go.
MisinformedFez
Aug 8, 2003 6:53 PM
Open Pros - Click with every rotation? Every person you talked to experiences this? Not likely.

But where you really lose credibility is when you say CXP21s are better training rims. Not the case. They are heavier and the construction results in less durability and reliability than an Open Pro rim. CXP33s are good rims with a deeper aero profile, if that's what you want. They weigh more than Open Pros, but less than 21s.

Hate to let the secret out of the bag, but Ksyriums aren't that aero and aren't that light. I don't know how you measured the stiffness to comment that they are stiff.
Stiffnessspookyload
Aug 8, 2003 10:46 PM
As a heavier rider(180 lbs) I can attest to the stiffness of K's. I used to have OP's that were 3x rear and radial front. The way I noticed the extra stiffness is on long climbs when out of the saddle, the 3x rear wheels with light guage spokes used to rub my brake pads from wheel flex. My K's don't. So in order to get a wheel that is as light, I would have to put up with the flex. Doesn't add up in my eye's. As for the radial front, it was very stiff. So stiff in fact that the wheel needed constant truing. My first set of K's are now my backup wheels, and they have over 7000 miles without ever being trued. I liked them so much I bought the SL's which are my primary wheels now. Having had tons of wheels, 7 pairs at once for a while to be exact, I am now down to three. My SL's, my old K's, and my Zipp 404's(my century wheels) The reliablility of the K's allowed me to get rid of the trainer wheels, the cross wheels, the rain wheels, and the tubies. I now use my old K's for all the odd jobs, and the SL's as my daily riders. The K's do awesome for cyclocross BTW

Another big benifit to the K's I like that nobody has mention is the extra large braking area on the rim. I can switch lots of different wheels, and never have to adjust the brake pads for the k's. I used to have a set of Rolf wheels, so I set the pads for them, and the brake surface was big enough on the K's I didn't need to adjust the pads. The same couldn't be said for the OP's. If I wanted to ride the OP's I would have to drop the brake pads before riding because the brake surface was small and not lined up with the Rolf wheels.
Misinformedxcmntgeek
Aug 9, 2003 8:07 PM
Fez, The only reason I said that CXP 21's were better training rims was my own experiance. Those are what I got (for free) to replace my OPs. Are they heavier? Yea, but who cares- they are a training rim. I've had to true them less than my OPs even though I've riden twice as far on them.

I know people who have riden the 33s. They love them but I have not riden them for any significant time, therfore I didn't want to recomend them.

As far as the clicking, it is a very common problem. I asked around and got a pretty universal response about other people having the same problem
re: Ksyrium weightrogue_CT1
Aug 8, 2003 1:07 PM
Did he even mention anything about open pros and DA hubs? NO! What is the freakin' deal with you guys and your OPs? Any post what-so-ever on wheels has to have the mandatory OP response.
The deal is........northcoast
Aug 8, 2003 2:55 PM
I guess the "OP" people can't get over what moron would pay $600 - $800 for basically NO performance gain, just to be a me too person. I guess that IS hard to let go of.
The deal is........filtersweep
Aug 9, 2003 8:36 AM
It is like tattoos... people WITH tattoos don't judge those who don't...

I paid about $200 more than a set of DA/OPs for my Ks... so they aren't THAT expensive if you know where to look. Maybe there is no performance gain, but do I really need a cabon stem? Carbon bars? Part of the experience of riding is aesthetic.

FWIW- I had a pair of velomax where the rims simply fell apart... I had a set of Rolf that simply lacked enough spokes to feel stiff when cornering. Granted these are not the Ks, but why does the OP crowd always feel like ganging up on them? When the name-calling comes out, it makes me wonder if there is an inferiority complex going on?
re: Ksyrium weightFez
Aug 8, 2003 7:00 PM
I guess its because those weights are listed at mavic.com and in almost every bike catalog and website that sells them.

I guess the response just made me realize how un-light those Ksyrium wheels are.

Where I ride I think I see more folks on Ksyriums than Open Pros - a complete reversal from 2 seasons ago.
agree r_ct1- you would think they were made by campy nmTheTank
Aug 9, 2003 4:00 AM
Ksyrium statsweiwentg
Aug 8, 2003 5:31 PM
from a regular on www.cyclingforum.com:

Date: April 14, 2003 04:06 PM
Author: Håkan (Hakan.Carlson@home.se)
Subject: Ksyriums are not fast

This has been posted here before, last time a week ago:
http://www.cyclingforum.com/forums/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&Thread_ID=4869&mc=12&FromArchive=yes

The most important performance factors of a wheel is aerodynamics, weight and last and least inertia.
Aerodynamics is by far the most important factor, at least as long as the speed is higher then 20-25km/h. That the parameters above actually are listed in order of importance can be read about here:
http://www.bike.com/template.asp?date=8%2F1%2F2001&lsectionnumber=6
Quote:
"So, what do all these numbers mean? It means that when evaluating wheel performance, wheel aerodynamics are the most important, distantly followed by wheel mass. Wheel inertia effects in all cases are so small that they are arguably insignificant."
Or you can find out by yourself by testing different (REALISTIC!) values for the different parameters here:
http://www.analyticcycling.com/

The German magazine Tour(http://www.tour-magazin.de/) have tested several different wheels in issue 7/2002.

Measured weighs for Ksyrium SSC SL:
Front 730g Rear 884g (excl Q/R)

Standard wheel with OpenPro-rim and 32-spokes:
Front 676g Rear 781g (excl Q/R)

The standard wheels are built with Sapim (http://www.sapim.be/) aero spokes and hubs from the German manufacturer Tune:
http://www.tune.de/

Tour also tested the aerodynamics of the wheels in Mavics windtunnel. The wheels have almost the same aerodynamics:
Ksyrium SL: 251g, OpenPro: 258g ie less then 3% difference.

The test also shows that the inertia is almost the same for the wheels:
Ksyrium SL: 121Joule(J), OpenPro: 116J, a difference of 4%.

But what about the 'old' Ksyriums?
What about the aerodynamics, weight and inertia of them?

Tour have in earlier issues teste them too, unfortunately not in the windtunnel.
Aerodynamics for a bicycle wheel is largely set by the rims surface area or rims with a higher profile are faster. Read more here:
http://www.bicyclesports.com/technical/aerodynamics/watts_drag.html
The rim profile of the Ksyriums are not very good, compare with the CXP33-rim:
http://www.mavic.com/servlet/srt/mavic/road-prod_fiche?produitsid=46&lg=uk
The spokes of the Ksyriums are very different but they are so fat(1,7 x 5,2 mm) that if they make a difference they make the aerodynamics worse.
Thin aero spokes like the Sapim CX Ray are 0,95 x 2,3 mm.
Wheels built with CXP33-rims and thin aerospokes will in practice have the same aerodynamics as the 'old' Ksyriums.

But what about weight and inertia for the wheels? Mavic is selling the Ksyriums as lightweight wheels.

In issue 4/2000 Tour tested the 'old' Ksyriums and in issue 7/99 they tested wheels built with CXP33-rims. Here are some of the data:
Weight(f/r) Inertia
Ksyrium 730/934 123J
CXP33 678/845 118J

The CXP33-wheels were this time too built with Sapim CX-Ray spokes (28/32) and Tune hubs.

Ksyrium-wheels both the 'old' version and the new SL don't seem to have any different performance then wheels built with OpenPro or CXP33-rims.

But there are two ways that the Ksyriums are different in:
Looks
Price

If the looks make them worth the price is up to the buyer to decide, but the buyer also clearly shows off that he pays extra for looks not performance.

Homebuilt alternatives

If you like the black look of the KSyriums you can try the following alternative:

Front
Hub: Nav AmericanClassic, black 68g 515SEK
Rim: OpenPro, black 425g 399SEK
Spokes: 32 Sapim CX-Ray, black 145g 736SEK
Nipples: Sapim Polyax, black 11g (incl)

649g 1805SEK

Rear
Hub: Tune MAG 200, black 209g 2477SEK
Rim: CXP33, black 470g 441SEK
Spokes: 16 Sapim CX-Ray, black 73g 368SEK
Nipples: 16 Sapim Polyax, blac
What I find odd herespookyload
Aug 8, 2003 10:32 PM
"The CXP33-wheels were this time too built with Sapim CX-Ray spokes (28/32) and Tune hubs."

Are you saying the price of the wheels doesn't justify the the negligable performance gain? Look at the quote I used from your response. Tune hubs? Talk about boutique! They are a small company that produces ti parts. You would pay a fortune for the wheels you listed above. Not to mention your OP or CXP wheels are only as good as the person making them. A lot of LBS claim to be wheel specialists, when in fact they are wheel hacks. Just because they build a wheel that is round and true doesn't mean it will stay that way. Tension is the key, and I don't believe there are many wheel builders out there who can build a wheel perfect every time. The Mavic Ksyrium spokes may be fatter, and thus more drag, but they are also stronger than the Sapim spokes you listed. I have never heard of a Ksyrium spoke failing outside of a crash, but I see spokes from "handmade" wheels busting regularly. I also see a lot of wheels where a wheel builder wanted high spoke tension to make it stiff, and rims cracking at the spoke hole. OP's are notorious for that. And how about that nice ticking noise they make when the spot weld breaks free inside after a few miles. Mine did it after less than 800 which is why I dumped the OP rims. And if Dura Ace/Open pro wheels are so great, how come the pro teams aren't jumping on the band wagon. They always run the most reliable and high performance stuff. If it was such a great savings you would especially see the Division2 teams trying to save some money. Other than your local USCF races you won't find many people not running a wheel system.
What I find odd hereweiwentg
Aug 9, 2003 8:33 AM
the point was, you would pay a fortune for OPs/Tune/CX-rays, but it would work out to less than the Ksyriums in Sweden. in America, you can use Interloc Cadence/Am Classics/Wheelsmith AE15, for probably the same performance. yes, they would be less strong, which for a lighter rider is acceptable. I never said the Ksyriums were taco-prone. I've seen it done, but it takes a heck of a lot.
I never said, and never have said, that "standard" wheels built on Shimano/Campy hubs with standard OP or CXP rims equal the performance of botique wheels. I will say, though, that you can get almost the same performance for a lot less money. for pro teams, even that little bit matters. if it matters to you, and you can justify the cost, go for it! as a counterpoint, as you'll see from my post below, I had a set of Ritchey OCR rims built with Am Classic hubs and Wheelsmith AE15 spokes, for $400. 1497g honest weight (no skewers/rimstrip). I am a very light rider, so this set is easily strong enough for me.
Ksyrium statsweiwentg
Aug 8, 2003 5:32 PM
from a regular on www.cyclingforum.com:

Date: April 14, 2003 04:06 PM
Author: Håkan (Hakan.Carlson@home.se)
Subject: Ksyriums are not fast

This has been posted here before, last time a week ago:
http://www.cyclingforum.com/forums/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&Thread_ID=4869&mc=12&FromArchive=yes

The most important performance factors of a wheel is aerodynamics, weight and last and least inertia.
Aerodynamics is by far the most important factor, at least as long as the speed is higher then 20-25km/h. That the parameters above actually are listed in order of importance can be read about here:
http://www.bike.com/template.asp?date=8%2F1%2F2001&lsectionnumber=6
Quote:
"So, what do all these numbers mean? It means that when evaluating wheel performance, wheel aerodynamics are the most important, distantly followed by wheel mass. Wheel inertia effects in all cases are so small that they are arguably insignificant."
Or you can find out by yourself by testing different (REALISTIC!) values for the different parameters here:
http://www.analyticcycling.com/

The German magazine Tour(http://www.tour-magazin.de/) have tested several different wheels in issue 7/2002.

Measured weighs for Ksyrium SSC SL:
Front 730g Rear 884g (excl Q/R)

Standard wheel with OpenPro-rim and 32-spokes:
Front 676g Rear 781g (excl Q/R)

The standard wheels are built with Sapim (http://www.sapim.be/) aero spokes and hubs from the German manufacturer Tune:
http://www.tune.de/

Tour also tested the aerodynamics of the wheels in Mavics windtunnel. The wheels have almost the same aerodynamics:
Ksyrium SL: 251g, OpenPro: 258g ie less then 3% difference.

The test also shows that the inertia is almost the same for the wheels:
Ksyrium SL: 121Joule(J), OpenPro: 116J, a difference of 4%.

But what about the 'old' Ksyriums?
What about the aerodynamics, weight and inertia of them?

Tour have in earlier issues teste them too, unfortunately not in the windtunnel.
Aerodynamics for a bicycle wheel is largely set by the rims surface area or rims with a higher profile are faster. Read more here:
http://www.bicyclesports.com/technical/aerodynamics/watts_drag.html
The rim profile of the Ksyriums are not very good, compare with the CXP33-rim:
http://www.mavic.com/servlet/srt/mavic/road-prod_fiche?produitsid=46&lg=uk
The spokes of the Ksyriums are very different but they are so fat(1,7 x 5,2 mm) that if they make a difference they make the aerodynamics worse.
Thin aero spokes like the Sapim CX Ray are 0,95 x 2,3 mm.
Wheels built with CXP33-rims and thin aerospokes will in practice have the same aerodynamics as the 'old' Ksyriums.

But what about weight and inertia for the wheels? Mavic is selling the Ksyriums as lightweight wheels.

In issue 4/2000 Tour tested the 'old' Ksyriums and in issue 7/99 they tested wheels built with CXP33-rims. Here are some of the data:
Weight(f/r) Inertia
Ksyrium 730/934 123J
CXP33 678/845 118J

The CXP33-wheels were this time too built with Sapim CX-Ray spokes (28/32) and Tune hubs.

Ksyrium-wheels both the 'old' version and the new SL don't seem to have any different performance then wheels built with OpenPro or CXP33-rims.

But there are two ways that the Ksyriums are different in:
Looks
Price

If the looks make them worth the price is up to the buyer to decide, but the buyer also clearly shows off that he pays extra for looks not performance.

Homebuilt alternatives

If you like the black look of the KSyriums you can try the following alternative:

Front
Hub: Nav AmericanClassic, black 68g 515SEK
Rim: OpenPro, black 425g 399SEK
Spokes: 32 Sapim CX-Ray, black 145g 736SEK
Nipples: Sapim Polyax, black 11g (incl)

649g 1805SEK

Rear
Hub: Tune MAG 200, black 209g 2477SEK
Rim: CXP33, black 470g 441SEK
Spokes: 16 Sapim CX-Ray, black 73g 368SEK
Nipples: 16 Sapim Polyax, blac
dp, sorry!! nmweiwentg
Aug 8, 2003 5:33 PM
Ksyrium TdF w/o Skew [42g] f:701g. r: 865g. = 1566g. nmDUOHEAD
Aug 8, 2003 11:33 PM
re: Ksyrium weightTrev84
Aug 9, 2003 9:47 AM
Hey there!

I don't get it.

And, you're right, Who the "hell," in their right mind would pay US$800.00/pair??

I paid less than $550.00 for my "SL's" - NEW!

Ksyriums are an excellent wheelset!

Weighing almost 270Lbs, I put almost 4000K's on
them without missing a beat. They roll smoother
than butter and are as true today as the day I
got them. I should be the Poster Boy for these
puppies!!

Nevertheless, now I'm looking for a set of "TDF's"
anyone know a good source - Cheap! My previous
source in the U.K. dried up.

Any Info?

Thanks!!

Trev!
re: Ksyrium SL'sTrev84
Aug 9, 2003 9:51 AM
Why not spend more time riding than hacking this topic to deathgetoffmywheel
Aug 10, 2003 8:43 PM
Jim asked a simple question then many of the posters here use it to debate a topic that's been covered several times.

To the many-Instead of pissing and moaning about equipment, spend more time riding it than on the message board debating it. It would make wheel choice a moot point.

And buy what you like and works for you, ride it, and enjoy it and be happy. Ksyriums can be had for $550 and the weight is w/o the skewers. I'm sure one of the intellectual giants will post a Campy verus Shimano post next week....lame.