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I BREAK ALL ROAD WHEELS!(16 posts)

I BREAK ALL ROAD WHEELS!skihound
Aug 1, 2003 8:20 PM
PLEASE HELP ME FIND A ROAD WHEEL THAT CAN STAND UP TO MY PUNISHMENT. I AM 240 LBS AND I LIKE TO RIDE WITH THE FAST GROUP, BUT SPOKES SNAP ON ME LIKE SPAGHETTI. I CARRY SPARE 14 GAUGE SPOKES JUST TO COMPLETE MY TRAING RIDES. BTW I CANNOT SPEND A FORTUNE! FRUSTRATED IN THE HILLS OF NE ALABAMA!!
re: I BREAK ALL ROAD WHEELS!torquecal
Aug 1, 2003 10:38 PM
You need to find a better wheel builder.
re: I BREAK ALL ROAD WHEELS!d-boy
Aug 2, 2003 5:52 AM
I agree with torquecal, use better built wheels. I'm usually over 240 lbs and have over 1500 miles on each of my wheelsets. Each set has ultegra hubs, one with open pros, the other with CXP33. They all have DT 14/15 DB spokes. They are relatively inexpensive and light. One set I bought pre-made from Colorado Cyclist, they were perfect. The others I made myself and were just as good. Never had a problem with either. Well trued and tensioned. I have had spokes break on me when riding cheapo mass produced wheels and on very old wheels I did not upkeep. Both types were either fatigued or out of true. Good luck.
STOP YELLING!Kerry Irons
Aug 2, 2003 4:04 PM
The consensus is that USING ALL CAPS is the equivalent of yelling. You don't want to be yelling at us, do you? Your problem is a combination of a poor build (either build quality, improper specification for your weight, components, or all three) and perhaps a lack of a smooth riding style and/or not watching where you are riding. I can assure you that the pros put out more power than you ever will, and their wheels don't fail like this. They have a smooth pedaling style, their wheels are built in consideration of their weight and power output, and they avoid potholes, rocks, curbs, etc. Your weight is a factor, but a good build can easily deal with it.
CASE POLICEHENRY K
Aug 2, 2003 5:18 PM
I THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS A COMPONENT SITE NOT AN ENGLISH LESSON! LIGHTEN UP! BTW, ALL CAPS IS EASIER IF YOU ARE NOT THE GREATEST TYPIST.
CASE POLICEThe The
Aug 2, 2003 5:25 PM
I'm sorry, but typing in all caps is a poor solution to eyesight problems. Not only is all caps considered yelling, but is actually more difficult to read for the average person than lower case letters. Almost everyone will agree on this point. So, in other words, while you use all caps to help with your typing, you are creating a headache for others who are trying to read what you just wrote. This is obviously not a good scenario.

If you have problems reading standard lettering, and you feel switching to all caps is necessary, why not increase your screen font sizes instead? Both Explorer and Netscape give you the option of doing this within the browser. In Explorer, open "View" in the menu, and select "Text size." It will allow you to increase or decrease the text size based on your needs.
"Clydesdale" wheelsDougSloan
Aug 2, 2003 7:51 PM
Yup, especially built for you:

http://www.zipp.com/Wheelsets/clydesdale_404c.html

Cxp 33 rims - 36 spk rear and 32 front.MXL02
Aug 4, 2003 6:06 AM
Depending on which hub you use, you can get these from Colorado cyclist or Excel for $200-$250. DO NOT USE LIGHT WEIGHT RACING WHEELS, UNLESS YOU WEIGH 160LBS AND ARE RACING LANCE UP L'ALPE D'HUEZ.
re: I BREAK ALL ROAD WHEELS!off roadie
Aug 4, 2003 8:40 AM
You've got a bum wheelbuilder. Spokes should NOT snap, especially not for "mere clyde" like you. There are 300 lb "uber clydes" out there who don't have your problems, not to mention tandem bikes with two clydes on them...

I'd start with a nice beefy deep section rim. Deep section rims, it helps spread the loads over more spokes. The Velocity Deep V is excellent option- very strong for its reasonble weight, with a decent aero advantage and 36 or even (iirc) 48 hole drillings. Mavic makes a good deep section rim, plus theres fancy carbon ones, but Velocity gets my vote because its an Aussie company- Austrialia has a lot more clydes than France, so they know how to beef a rim!!!
Lacing could vary. Velocity sells a wheel called the "sparticus" that uses a paired-spoke drilling of the deep V and comes in a clyde version (more spokes). Its not a bad option, but I'd still tweek the wheel myself to ensure proper building. Otherwise I'd just build 36 spoke rear, 32 front, with double butted spokes. I think Wheelsmith DB's (2.0/1.7) would be good, with heavier spokes (2.0 staigh or 2.0/1.8's from DT) on the right rear. The left rear sould almost certainly be laced radialy, as this greatly reduces spoke breakage in that normally troublesome location. You could maybe go with lighter spokes- I think part of your problem may in fact be that you are using thick, stiff spokes, which are very BAD at absorbing the shock a heavy rider dishes out, especially if combined with a flexy rim. Heavy riders should use stiff rims and lighter spokes, not the other way around!

For a rear, you might be better off with a heavy asymetric rim, for more even spoke tension. If you can take the weight, I'm partial to the Bontrager Fairlane asym, which is a rim normally used for touring bikes. There are other asymetric 700c rims, but most are just over 400 grams, not really clyde stuff. The Fairlane is a solid chunkster, about 520 grams, but if you weigh 484,000 grams yourself, who cares?

If you want something lighter, the Velocity Aerohead also has a good rep, and comes in normal and asymetric. They are VERY light, but vertically stiff and could work well with 36 spokes.

If that makes sense to you, contact a pro wheelbuilder- theres some good ones on line.
I weigh almost 200 and build road bike wheels that I can launch off curbs with on daily commutes. They almost never need truing, much less snap a spoke.
I'm a amature home builder, so I'd bet a pro could do better. Then again, as an amature I can afford to spend a LONG time on each of my wheels, aiming for VERY high standards.

=======================

AS OTHERS PEOPLE HAVE POINTED OUT, TEXT WRITTEN IN ALL CAPITALS IS VERY HARD TO READ. YOU MAY BE BIG, BUT YOU CAN USE SMALL LETTERS! ITS EVEN WORSE WHEN IT ALL RUNS ALONG IN ONE BIG BLOCK OF TEXT FULL OF EXTENDED LENGHT WORDS!! AND DOUBLEY BAD WHEN FULL!!! OF EXLAMTION MAKRS!!!!!

if you have a problem with the shift key, its ok to use all small letters.

try to put in lots of empty lines to break up the text.

that way people know where new sentances begin.
I'm your size (in the off season)pitt83
Aug 4, 2003 10:44 AM
And I'm riding Velocity Aerohead laced 3-X to 32H Ultegra with 14ga straights. ABsolutely the strongest wheel you can buy. Lighter than all the Mavic rims. I hit a curb 2 weeks ago and barely knocked them out of true. $190 a pair from CC. Buy these!
is it standard 3x wheelset?cyclopathic
Aug 4, 2003 1:00 PM
do you break front/rear? drive/non-drive?
PUT THE FORK DOWNBIG RING
Aug 4, 2003 1:26 PM
is it standard 3x wheelset?skihound
Aug 4, 2003 9:31 PM
I only have trouble with rear.
I have a Ultegra hub,14gauge 3x spoke pattern with open pro rims. I have broken both drive-side and non-drive side.
The CXP33's that came on the bike did not stand a chance, I broke 4 spokes on the first ride! I was lucky to make it back to my truck. I tried a cheap wheel while waiting for the ultegra build-up to come in and had a fair amount of luck- Equation wheels built for Raleigh,they had a bladed spoke on an unknown hub. Unbelievably I put over a thousand miles on these cheapos until one day the spoke pulled a chunk of the hub right off! Technically I did not break that spoke, but the wheel was trashed.I am fairly new to cycling, I mountain biked since 1998, but road biking for about 3 years now. Some of the old dogs that have ridden with me say i should try a Tandem wheel on the rear! My legs are pretty strong, background is football, and downhill skiing. For a big guy I can scooter pretty fast and I think when we hit these steep climbs I am supposed to be able stand and crank with the rest of the crowd, this seems to be when the damage is done. I am leaning toward the Kysirium Elites, the money is about what I want to spend and the local bike shop will cut me a good deal. What do you think?
ps. sorry about the yelling!
Believe me, these are what you wantpitt83
Aug 5, 2003 5:01 AM
Get this: I hit a curb and endoed. The wheel is fine. I weight 225 this week. Again, the whell is fine.

Velocity Aerohead built 3X with 14G straights on Ultegra hubs. $189 from CC. These are truly bomb-proof.

Another observation: You MTB, right? What wheeels are you happy with on that bike? Most manufacturers have a cross-over road bike component level and you could essentially copy the build of your MTB wheels for road use (XT=Ultegra, XTR=Dura Ace, Velocity Aeroheat= Velocity Aerohead, Mavic CrossMax=Ksyriums, etc)
AH- problem isn't rim strength, its torque handlingoff roadie
Aug 7, 2003 8:29 AM
Espeically from the hub flange failure, it does sound like there is less of a load bearing issue (though its a definate factor) than an issue relating to torque. If your style is to pound on the downstroke rahter than spinning in circles, AND you are a heavier rider, its a common situation, though your case (maybe due to bad luck) sounds really bad.

The simplest way to make a rear wheel more torque-proof is to use more spokes. Hubs with a very large flange diameter, so that the ends of the spokes are as far from the axle as possible, also place less strain on the spokes for any given amount of torque. Spokes that have some give to them (butted steel spokes or maybe fiber spokes) could also help a lot.
The "old dogs" are right. Tandem wheels are designed to handle large torque loads. Not only can two riders hammering away can put out a lot of power, but a normal bike will pop a wheelie when torque gets to high, while a tandem will not! They normally have 40 or more spokes, reducing the strain torque places on each. Also, thier frewheel mechanisms may be beefed up a bit, which could be a concern in the long run if you are already having torque related failures.
An alternive option might be road hubs designed for use with disc brakes. Avid makes road bike disc brakes, so I assume these exist. Disc brakes produce lots of torque, so the hub should have a nice big flange. If your bike can take 135mm hubs, there's MTB hubs out there with HUGE flanges that you could try.
Either way, look for butted spokes rather than spokes which are striaght gauge, as these will take up strain in their center portion rather than breaking at the flange (or breaking the flange). Many bladed spokes are simply straigh gauge spokes mashed flat, so wheels with bladed spokes may not be the best option either.

For what its worth, you also probably should NOT "stand and crank with the crowd" on hills. "The crowd" is being dumb. Its really not a very effecient or fast way to climb. Racers who stand on a climb are generally doing so because they are falling behind and running thier muscles a bit harder than they would like to.
Not only would it be easier on your equipment if you learned a new climbing style, but you might well be a faster rider!
nix on the K-elitesoff roadie
Aug 7, 2003 1:12 PM
Check above for a thread about troublseom k-wheels. Mavic does not recomend them for riders over 200 lbs, and apparently its not uncommon for heavier riders to break or even tear loose spokes. Besides, common sense says that a wheel designed for fast-spinning euro-racers is not the wheel a clyde needs for training rides.
If you want to blow a big wad of cash on new wheels, get them built with Chris King hubs. The CK freewheel mech has an ungodly torque tolerance.
Or even better, try a Rholoff speed hub! Its a little heavy, but the wheel would be dishless and would have a very large spoke flange, which should easily solve all your spoke-breakage problems. They only cost $800 or so- a lot of money, but then you can get rid of your entire collection of shifters, deraialuers, cables, etc.