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American Classic 420's vs Mavic Ksyrium SL's(19 posts)

American Classic 420's vs Mavic Ksyrium SL'sNate552
Jun 19, 2003 6:09 PM
I'm looking at purchasing some race wheels. Currently I am riding Bontrager Race Lites, but want something lighter and faster to race on. I'm a smaller rider (5'9" 135 lbs), am a pretty good climber, and will be putting them on a 99 Trek 5500, if that matters in this case. I've read great reviews of the 420's, but the SL's seem to be the standard. I can get either for the same price so thats not a factor. Any advice would be appreciated!

Thanks!
re: American Classic 420's vs Mavic Ksyrium SL'srussw19
Jun 19, 2003 8:54 PM
Swim upstream like the Salmon... be different and get the 420's. I love my set. Some people have problems with the rear freehub engagement, but I never have.

There are some major advantages to the 420's. First, they are built in Tampa, Florida and if you need to send them back, that's where they go, not France. They use normal spokes so you can fix them yourself. They are custom buildable, with the K's you only get what they offer. For your size you could build them to be over 100 grams lighter than the K's. Call Jaysen at American Classic and tell him your size and riding style and he will recommend a set for you. The only knock I have heard on them is the rear freehub. I haven't had problems, but I suspect the problem is that they aren't coming correctly assembled from overseas. They are built over in either Taiwan or China and I think the problem is that they aren't set up so the pawls engage correctly. That's a theory of mine after talking to some of the people at American Classic.... but it's my theory, not necessarily theirs.

The front hub is sweet and light, you can get them slotted for bladed spokes if you like, and you can choose your number of holes and build pattern. You can customize them for you and your riding style... with Kysriums, you get what Mavic gives you.

Which ever way you choose, you can't really go wrong, but for the same amount of money, I would go American Classic. The 3 things of custom, rebuildable by any shop with normal spokes, and lighter all point to the 420's for me.

Russ
re: American Classic 420's vs Mavic Ksyrium SL'sbjarne
Jun 20, 2003 1:01 AM
I´ve had problems with my rearhub on my 420´s, like many others, and the problem is the hub body, who is simply not made a bit too large for the bearings.
This is a problem that A/C knows about, and should tell their customers.
The bearings go loose, and to fix the problem you have to glue the bearing to the body.
When I complaint to A/C, they send me a new cassette, and instructions how to reassemble the hub, right away free of charge, and with no fuss at all.
So at least their service it good, but I would go for Mavic, their bulletproof.
what means this, "glue the bearing to the body?" I'mbill
Jun 20, 2003 12:38 PM
sorry, I don't know everything but I find it hard to believe that there is anything glued in a hub body, let alone anything involving bearings. Aren't bearings, like, supposed to roll?
Are you sure of this?
what means this, "glue the bearing to the body?" I'mbjarne
Jun 20, 2003 1:17 PM
You are right, bearings are supposed to roll, but not to "woble".
That why the "outer part" of the the bearing, have to sit tight to the body, while the "inner part" connects to the axel.
A/C rear hub have the wrong dimensions, and therefore the bearing is loose, and you have to glue them.
I didn´t make this up myself, I just followed the instructions from A/C.
More than that I tried it, and finally, my rearhub works.
"outer part?" "inner part?" Bearings are little round metalbill
Jun 20, 2003 1:56 PM
balls that roll between a cup and a cone. "Sit tight to the body?" "connects to the axle?" How can a little round ball have an inner or outer part in the first instance, or that sits tight or connects to anything and still roll?
My interest is not abstract. I have one of these wheelsets, and I've already had to return the rear once because of the pawls not engaging.
"outer part?" "inner part?" Bearings are little round metalbjarne
Jun 21, 2003 12:33 AM
Bearings are not little round metal balls.
Bearings have an "inner shell" and an "outer shell", with balls inbetween.
There can not be any gap between the outer shell and the hub body, but on A/C, there is a small gap, therefor the glue.
If you contact A/C, they while send you instructions, how to do it.
You can also see these instructions on their website, where i copied this little part.


b) Put your little finger in the bearing and try pulling it out of the hub (Figure 18). If it comes out, the bearing bore is too loose and the bearing must be glued into place (see below).
well, bearings to me are little round balls. What you arebill
Jun 21, 2003 4:59 AM
describing, I would call, anyway, a bearing cartridge. I don't want to get too fussy over this, but I think that would be the more common nomenclature, American Classic instructions aside.
Bearings, cartidges, whatever, I need to look into this, because that's exactly what happened to mine.
I'm going to try to find the instructions on the site, but do you have a link?
here you goterry b
Jun 21, 2003 7:42 PM
http://www.amclassic.com/Tech_Hubs.html

see steps 8b and 8e-ii

even though I don't have a dog in this fight I like to read about in-field modifications to expensive wheels that should've been designed correctly in the first place.

funny, I was going to buy a pair of these until I got chatting with a wheel tech at Excel. He said "big mistake," I'm glad I listened.
here you goMisterX
Jun 23, 2003 9:04 AM
Yeah, like a wheel tech at Excel knows anything. Read further down their tech page. Green loctite. Shucks, I've even had to do this on a Shimano hub.

So many experts in this forum... enough to open a bike shop.
and it doesn't seem to that the fix addresses the problembill
Jun 23, 2003 11:44 AM
that I thought we were addressing, which is the freehub malfunction. Does it? If the cartridge is rolling around loose in there, what would be the result?
well geeterry b
Jun 23, 2003 1:44 PM
the techs at Excel might not know anything, but at least I'm not recycling my wheels back and forth to AM Classic to fix their design issues.

Good for you on the green loctite, I guess I'd prefer a wheel that works as built and doesn't need in-field modifications.
Green loctiteMisterX
Jun 21, 2003 12:57 PM
Just to clarify for the bearing "experts" in this thread. Gluing in the bearing refers to green loctite. I have had a loose bearing bore on a Shimano hub, and this fixed the problem. Green loctite's bond is not permanent, so the bearing will come out at replacement time. To clarify even further, the loctite is not applied to the internals of the bearing, so there is no bearing resistance.

The amount of drivel posted to this forum is amazing. So many experts.
re: American Classic 420's vs Mavic Ksyrium SL'sNate552
Jun 20, 2003 8:30 PM
So is this problem something that should deter me from buying the 420's? Or is it easily solved? HELP!

Nate
-not like the salmonfiltersweep
Jun 20, 2003 6:49 AM
remember, the salmon get screwed and then they DIE after swimming upstream... better get the Ks ;)
I love it! LOL ! nmthe bull
Jun 20, 2003 11:25 AM
Salmon tastes way better than Carp! ---nmrussw19
Jun 20, 2003 2:07 PM
toss upbicycle268
Jun 20, 2003 5:59 AM
I started a similar thread last month. I ended up getting the ksyriums. But in a freakish series of events I was presented with the opportunity to purchase the 420's ALSO, which I did.

420's - lighter; faster; cooler looking; customer service; custom builds available

k's- stronger(?);better reputation for durability;can be cheaper if you shop around

I put 20k miles on my original set of k's with no problems so the k's get the nod on that. There's been some talk about hub problems with the 420's although I haven't had a problem in 500 miles. Excellent customer service at Am-Classic!! k's get the nod on price (small difference).

Two very good sets of wheels we're arguing about here. Can you really lose with either choice?

Quinn
disregard cost in my post since it's moot in your case(nm)bicycle268
Jun 20, 2003 6:04 AM