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DT Hugi vs. Chris King hubs? Also spokes and rims?(17 posts)

DT Hugi vs. Chris King hubs? Also spokes and rims?fallzboater
Apr 15, 2003 8:06 PM
I'm currently riding Ultegra/Open Pros, but thinking of building a lighter wheelset. I weigh 195 but have good luck with the Open Pros, but would want to keep something at least that strong in the back. Most of my potential weight savings would be in the hubs, about 250 grams front and rear. I've never had any problem with front wheels, so I might drop to 28 thinner butted spokes, 2X, and alloy nipples up front, but probably stick with 32/3X 14/15 butted and brass nipples in the rear. Maybe thinner spokes on non-drive side.

Right now I'm considering Chris King or DT Hugi 240 hubs. Anyone have any experience with the Hugis? I've only seen their tandem hubs. They're the same weight, so it'd probably come down to which I could get the best deal on. Any others I should consider? I'm not crazy about the American Classics.

Any particular spoke recommendations? I've built lots of wheels with DT 14/15 and brass nipples, but haven't tried anything different. I need to keep the rear wheel pretty beefy, since I'm heavy and fairly strong and the roads aren't the best here. These are for general non-winter use, lots of climbing.

I'm also looking at other rim possibilities, especially an assymetrical rear rim. How about Velocity Aerohead or Ritchey WCS? Are either at least as durable as the Open Pro? How about the Aerohead or another lighter semi-aero rim up front? Other brands of ~400g rims I should consider?

-David
Don't forget...Nessism
Apr 15, 2003 8:30 PM
...the search function. This topic has been discussed ad nausium.

Summary:

Open Pro has eyelets which is important if you want to run Al nipples. Aerohead and Ritchey rims do not have eyelets.

Al nipples tend to seize on the spokes after awhile and make truing a real pain after a year or so of use.

Non-drive side rear spokes are under fairly low tension so you can use a lighter spoke there with no loss of durability.

Asymetric rims seem like a good idea to me. They help reduce the tension difference but do not eliminate it.

Of the rims you mentioned, the order of durability (and overall weight) seems to be OP first, Aerohead, and Ritchey last. I don't think the Ritchey's are junk, but they are lighter and have less metal in them.

Chris King rear hubs are loud.

Current model Hugis are fairly quiet.

The main reason King and Hugi hubs are lighter than DA is because they use an Al freehub body. The steel freehub version of these hubs are heavier.

Shimano cassettes will cut into the splines on a Al freehub body - this is why Shimano uses either steel or Ti freehubs. This is not a super serious issue but something that may become a factor in overall durability.

Good luck.

Ed
Sorry :^)fallzboater
Apr 15, 2003 8:52 PM
OK, I did find lots of info by doing a search. Also the wheel weight calculator at:
http://www.bsn.com/Cycling/Wheels.html
Could use some updates, but shows me that I'm in the ballpark with my estimates.

Now I just need to find a good deal on the parts, and someone here with a decent truing stand.

-David
Also, weight of complete wheelsfallzboater
Apr 15, 2003 8:35 PM
I've tried to figure out what the weight of a complete wheelset would be, to see how they'd compare to some of the lighter wheel "systems" available. Here's what I came up with for one setup, using spoke weights from dtswiss.com:

Rear
Chris King 250g
Open Pro 425g
DT Super Comp (32) 160g
Alloy nipples 11g
Total Weight 846g

Front
Chris King 102g
Open Pro 425g
DT Revolution (28) 114g
Alloy nipples 10g
Total Weight 651g

With a total weight of <1500g, and nothing too exotic, it looks pretty promising (could drop another 50g with lighter rims). Cheaper and a little lighter (and probably more comfortable and serviceable) than Ksyrium SL, for example. Am I missing anything? Big aero of durability advantage for instance?

-David
Not the issuecyclequip
Apr 16, 2003 12:21 AM
At 195 lbs, your primary goal is a set of wheels that will consistently finish the rides. The search for light weight in wheels is a clouded issue. Lightness doesn't always mean quickness. Some scribes have argued that you are still better off with a standard Ultegra/DA hubset and OP's with butted, 3X spokes and brass nipples. Serviceable anywhere, parts everywhere and a tried and tested performer. I have a set of Ksyrium SSL's that come out a couple times a year for the big races - otherwise quite happy on my DA/OP wheelset - not AS fast but much more comfy.
there both exellent hubs!the bull
Apr 16, 2003 3:35 AM
You cant really go wrong either way!Also had a set of Ritchey wheels (2000)and had very good luck with them!
Just had my second pair of Hugis builtterry b
Apr 16, 2003 5:54 AM
Wanted to build something light and sturdy. Chose Hugi hubs, Ritchey rims, Revolution spokes on the front, Revs on the non-drive side and 14-15 drive side rear, 3x everywhere. Size-wise, I weigh 175.

Front weighed in at 624 grams, rear at 851.

I have about 400 miles on my first pair - they ride well, are very quiet and they're still intact - just as you might expect. Frankly, I think this build will be my standard.

$417 from Excel.

Kings - have them on my MTB, would never use them on the road. The noise (for me) is simply not consistent with the road riding experience. In other words, it drives me nuts.
Just had my second pair of Hugis builtkoala
Apr 16, 2003 6:03 AM
Did you go with brass or alloy nips? Someone on this board said not to go with alloys on the Ritchey rims because they do not have eyelets. I am considering these wheels due to another favorable post from Psydoc.
Brass. (nm)terry b
Apr 16, 2003 7:49 AM
re: DT Hugi vs. Chris King hubs? Also spokes and rims?MR_GRUMPY
Apr 16, 2003 7:33 AM
The 28 hole, 2X front, is a good idea. I use a set up like that for everything except crits. I wouldn't waste my money on the King hubs. Just build them with Ultegra and get an extra set on tires.(or two)
Not sure why people complain about the King noise.....K-Man
Apr 16, 2003 10:51 AM
if they were pedaling like they are supposed to, the noise is irrelevant. What!, does everyone around here coast. :)

KMan
I Love MY DT240'sAmbishawn
Apr 16, 2003 12:18 PM
They are fantastic hubs. When coasting they are almost silent. The rear hub flanges are spaced closer together allowing more even spoke tension like an asmetrical rim. I think they are a good step up from Dura-Ace of Record hubs.
I like them Btetter than Kings for the road. I want to lace a set of these up to some ZIPP 280 tubular rims with 28f an 32r. I currently am using them with CXP33's with 32 DT Competition spokes F&R.
re: DT Hugi vs. Chris King hubs? Also spokes and rims?laffeaux
Apr 16, 2003 3:19 PM
I currently run Hugi, King and DA hubs on three bikes:

MTB = Hugi 240
CX = King
Road = Dura Ace

While riding I can't tell a difference between the three in performance. King's are supposed to have "instant engagment" which might be noticable to a trials rider, but for normal useage I can't tell a difference. The King is a my least favorite due to the noise. If you hear an odd noise coming form your bike while pedaling, forget about coasting and listening for the source. When you stop pedaling you'll not hear anything but the hubs. They are nice on my commuter bike, as I can easily warn people that I'm behind them by not pedaling.

The DA hubs are the quietest of the three. My Hugis are about 3 years old, and though much quieter than the King's they do make noise. I can hear the DA when I push the bike, but when riding, it's almost silent (to me that is a good thing).

In the end you can't go wrong with any of the three.
Don't get too enamored with published weightsKerry
Apr 16, 2003 5:06 PM
Remember that DA hub weights includ skewers (120 gm) while the CK and Hugi do not. Once you factor that in, the weight differences are pretty small. Given the added cost, these hubs don't give much bang for the buck over a DA set.
How about Nimble?purplepaul
Apr 17, 2003 10:02 AM
They are US made carbon rims that will support up to 250 pound riders with the proper spokeage:

http://www.nimble.net/subpages/weightlimits.html

Given the price (under $500) and weight(400 gr clincher), I wonder why I've heard so little about people trying them.
re: DT Hugi vs. Chris King hubs? Also spokes and rims?Ye Olde Balde One
Apr 17, 2003 9:01 PM
I just got a set of 28h Hugi 240's, Campy compatible, which I couldn't do with King's, so my other choice was American Classic's. I found the weight of the rear Am Classic was 245gms, so the same as the 240. I didn't like the small front bearings on the Micro front hub, and had cassette fitting issues, so I plumbed for the 240's. I don't regret my choice, long term though I have no idea, but DT Swiss have been around a lot longer than American Classic....

As for spokes, I'd use DT Revolutions front and non drive side, with Competition 2.0/1.8's gear side or DT Aerospeed elliptical spokes, with the Velocity Aerohead rims (OC rear) and brass nipples. That would be a sweet pair of wheels.
re: DT Hugi vs. Chris King hubs? Also spokes and rims?road
Apr 18, 2003 11:44 AM
Guys, i use both in my road bike , no complain, actual configuration: open pro black anodized 32h, 3x rear/front , dt revo spokes 14/17...more stronger that 14/15. over 2000 miles on each with no complain, i'm 182-185 depending my hungry. BTW i get mines at Excel