|Please no Campy vs. Shmano wars or Record vs. Chorus wars||Ambishawn|
Feb 9, 2003 9:08 AM
|Looking to build My Crown Jewel frame into a Bicycle and have desided to Go Campy. Was considering Full Record but now am considering full Chourus due to durability and lower cost. The damm frame and fork set Me back $2100. The bike shop gave Me no love nor did I get out of paying tax. The less I've gotta save the sonner I'm riding My new bike instead of My MTN bike with slicks. If I did go with some Record Componets with the Chourus what should I get and why?|
|Chorus is the best value...||C-40|
Feb 9, 2003 10:29 AM
|The all chorus group is certainly the best value. There are no Record parts that will function any better. Some are a little lighter and some look at little better. The Record carbon ergo levers are one of the few cheap upgrades. Just about everything else costs a lot more than it's worth. That said, I have all Record parts, except the BB and cassette.
Check out totalcycling.com for low campy prices. You can also save enough on tires to make an overseas order worthwhile. Prices on Conti tires about 1/2 the norm.
|re: Please no Campy vs. Shmano wars or Record vs. Chorus wars||Rob Sal|
Feb 9, 2003 11:24 AM
|Record Ergos are some of the best looking cycle components ever made IMO, so nice I even have the Record carbon brake levers (same as Ergos without the gear parts!)on my winter bike!! They are worth pushing the budget for even if you forego the other fancy Record carbon things, ie rear mech. Brakes,go Chorus look exactly the same as Record and only lose Ti bolts. You can still get diff brakes in Chorus too! Rear mech, Record looks nice (I have one) but if the budget was tight I could live with Chorus in order to have Record Ergos. Bottom bracket, no brainer, Chorus. Chainset, I'd go Chorus as it looks exactly the same except for the 'extra' arm. Cassette, steel Chorus/Centaur, why people buy the Ti ones I don't know!|
|re: Please no Campy vs. Shmano wars or Record vs. Chorus wars||slide|
Feb 9, 2003 12:25 PM
|I just switched my bike from Shimano to Campy (mix of Chorus and Centaur) I thought about going for the Record levers since the price difference is very small (about $30) but I really prefer the look of the metal Chorus levers and went with those. I guess its partly because I have steel frame lemond, set up pretty traditional and the carbon would just look out of place. If I was building up some fancy carbon frame or something, I probably would have gone with the Record. Is there much difference between the two other then looks and the 23g weight difference?|
|re: Please no Campy vs. Shmano wars or Record vs. Chorus wars||ParticleMan|
Feb 9, 2003 8:45 PM
I am a Record user, and just about most other roadies here at my LBS use Record, over Chorus. It is worth the extra money in the long run, as Record does last longer, is easier to maintain and service[like having grease ports in hubs], look better,and well, you have the pleasure in knowing you have the best with no needs for any upgrades.
Sometimes, it is worth to save up, take some time, and not compromise. And yes, they are very durable - they take time to break in, and lasts well - many people I know have crashed on Record, with hardly the need for replacement.
But really,the onus is on you. Get what you will be most happy riding on - not what others suggest. Cycling can be quite subjective, go with your heart - not just the head or wallet.
Good luck, have a nice ride.
|re: Please no Campy vs. Shmano wars or Record vs. Chorus wars||Ambishawn|
Feb 9, 2003 10:40 PM
|Particle Man, you are the first poster who claims Record actually lasts longer than Chourus. The grease port on the hub is nice sure. I've gotta admit it's nice to be able to say "it's full Record". Wise cycle Buys sells record for only $300 more than Chourus (group without hubs or head set). Gotta buddy with a nice C40 full Record and Nutrons and he always says "get the best get Record bro". He also told Me to get a C40 too. I know that the Ti cassette wears out too fast so I will certainly go Chourus there. The $300 savings is not really significant considering that the whole bike is gonna cost Me over 4k with Record or Chorus. The only reason I'm considering Chorus is because My bike mechanic likes it and some of the posters on this site say it's even more reliable than Record. Some say "it's twice the price but that's not true. Chourus is definatly a cheap way out nor is it a bad way to go. I also noticed that nobody claims that Record has any signficant reliablity issues outside the Ti cassettes wearing prematurely.|
|I mean Chorus is definatly NOT a cheap way out of Record. nm||Ambishawn|
Feb 9, 2003 10:44 PM
|re: Please no Campy vs. Shmano wars or Record vs. Chorus wars||ParticleMan|
Feb 10, 2003 12:22 AM
Record is made with better materials, higher tolerances and is meant for the rigours of pro racing in all conditions. I am not saying Chorus is not, but Campy has always reserved its best for the Record Group. $300 more is really not that much, as you pointed out, compared with the overall price of the bike. Get it one go, so you don't have to worry or consider upgrading. I use a Record cassette- not the Ti one, and it doe slast well. However, you can consider the Chrorus cassette as well, as itspriced quite less, and works as well.
For wheels, I can recommend a good pair of Open Pros, DT and Record Hubs - you'll be suprised how light it is actually, and the reliability and smoothness of the hubs....
Also, Record is easy to work with and adjust, and your LBS should be ble to handle it fi eh can work on Chorus.
This is in reply to Ambishawn - all Chorus lovers take note. If I was on a budget that I cannot stertch, I will definitely spring for Chorus, over Dura Ace anytime. But I managed to save up and save up and waited for my Record, and I am really glad I did.
By the way, I had a nasty fall the toehr day in the wet, and all I needed to do was make a small adjustment to the cable barrels. The lvers got scratched, but a little buffing helped it look as good again.
Feb 10, 2003 5:22 AM
|from the campy website: "The Chorus groupset is known throughout the world of cycling for its quality, reliability and durability. It is closely related to the Record groupset and incorporates all the Record features and technical innovation that have made it an undisputed world leader.
The Chorus groupset differs from the Record groupset in its use of aluminum alloy rather than carbon fiber materials. But this difference enables it to attract an increasing number of fans who are looking for top quality at a lower price."
we are not claiming that Chorus is functionally identical to Record. Campy is claiming that. in fact, as far as the hubs go, CENTAUR is functionally identical to Chorus and Record (save that it has neither grease ports nor alloy QR nuts): "These hubs combine maximum technology with minimal weight and are the fruit of an ingenious Campagnolo patent. They can easily be recognized by their OVERSIZE form and their anodized finish. The hub body, freewheel body and axle are in light alloy.
A lockring in special resin enables play to be adjusted even with the wheel mounted on the bicycle. The internal components are standardized and are the same as those inside Record and Chorus hubs."
|and how many times have you used the grease ports? nm||Spunout|
Feb 10, 2003 4:18 AM
|3 to 4 times a year...||SnowBlind|
Feb 10, 2003 10:06 AM
|but then, people are always complimenting me on the spooky quietness of my bike, pedalling or not.
I've startled a few of my fellow club riders, as their first indication I am near them is me coughing or tapping the breaks.
IMHO, A bike that makes noise has something wrong with it.
|3 to 4 times a year...||Rob Sal|
Feb 10, 2003 10:55 AM
|'IMHO, A bike that makes noise has something wrong with it.'
It depends on the noise, especially in the hubs/freehub body. Over greasing the freehub is just as bad if not worse than not greasing. Unless you ride a lot in wet weather greasing 4 times a year is just clogging the pawls with grease.
|wrong about the durability....||C-40|
Feb 10, 2003 9:05 AM
|Their is nothing about the construction of the chorus components that will reduce the life compared to record. The only difference between record and chorus is the use of carbon fiber and Ti to reduce weight on the record group. The use of Ti will reduce the durability, not improve it. A chorus steel cassette will outlast a record cassette.|
Feb 9, 2003 8:34 PM
|I think the pretty carbon Record levers are overrated. I'm not saying they aren't pretty. I just really like the metal look of the Chorus as much or better. Don't fret it. Buy what you want. Chorus will not look bad on any bike.|
Feb 10, 2003 1:11 AM
|"I think the pretty carbon Record levers are overrated. I'm not saying they aren't pretty. I just really like the metal look of the Chorus as much or better"
Blimey, what 'body part groupset' do your eyes come from!? Clearly some cheap Shimano equivalent, good enough to tell night from day but not sensitive enough to spot a design icon! :)
|Chorus is functionally Record. Record is expensive in a crashnm||Spunout|
Feb 10, 2003 4:19 AM
|re: Please no Campy vs. Shmano wars or Record vs. Chorus wars||Blue Crown Jewel|
Feb 10, 2003 7:03 AM
|I too have an IF Crown Jewel that I purchased in 2001. I too
went through the same decision process of Chorus vs. Record,
having used Ultegra in my previous bicycle for over 4 years.
Ultegra worked just fine, despite the annoying rattle.
But coming back to my choice of Chorus vs. Record, I simply
followed my taste and instinct. For me, the Record carbon
levers left me cold literally. I did not understand the
appeal. I think that people should realize that only the
front level is carbon and the second lever is plastic (the
one you use to shift to an easier gear). I really liked
the sculpted lines of the Chorus shifters and disliked the
fact that the Record levers felt cheap in my hands.
The Record crank however, was something I had to have,
without doubt the most elegant crank in the cycling world.
The use of the crank arm to hide the fifth arm is pure
All the other components I selected from the Chorus group.
My reasoning being that I could not feel the few extra
grams I would save from the Record brakes over the Chorus
brakes. And as for the hubs, I was tempted. But my rationale
was that in another few years I would like to get Chris
So, follow your heart for now, and pick what you would like
to use and see on your bicycle.
As for the arguments of "record lasts longer", I think they
have little merrit. What exactly is "longer"? How do you
know that in two years you will not like a different bicycle
and with different components? Then your "longer" period
will be a moot point.
Although I have to say that I like to read stories of people
who have been using their Campagnolo equiped bicycles for
Feb 10, 2003 9:23 AM
|I just finished building up a bike and I elected to go with Chorus. Why - well I already have one Chorus bike and one Record bike and frankly it all came down to the "feel" of the Chorus levers. Functionally - the pieces operate exactly the same. No difference. I don't believe for a minute that Record is more durable nor is it easier to work on or built more precisely. There's a reason that the upcharge is only $300 - it's because all they've added is some carbon for looks, Ti pawls in the rear wheel and a few other minor items. I found that after a couple of thousand mile I really don't like the feel of the carbon levers. To me, they feel cheap. I much prefer the feel of metal. Now, once I got my brain around that, I had to convince myself that I would be okay with the "lesser" groupo. The $300 was a nit - but I concluded that it made no sense for me to spend it on pieces that I don't prefer just to be able to say my bike is "top of the line."
My next one will be Chorus too.
Feb 10, 2003 10:29 AM
|I'm not sure how you could say Record is worth paying extra as it lasts longer. Record is more expensive because it does exactly the same as Chorus but is lighter (be it through the use of 'exotic materials' or a lighter design that is more labour intensive to smarten up after it drops out the mould). On some components extra features, such as adjustable string tensioning on the front mech, exists. Sometimes you have to wonder whether the trouble and expense (both for Campag and buyer) is worth it. Record Ergos with their carbon fibre levers and injection moulded carbon (its not plastic) inner lever weighs 342gms yet Chorus weighs 365gms. However as a styling exercise its well worth the money.
Of course, another thing that puts the price up is Record is more polished. Campag have never made claims that Record as a group is longer lasting than either other contempory groups or previous Record groups, merely that it is 'improved' or lighter.
Feb 10, 2003 10:47 AM
|Were you replying to me?
I didn't say it was longer lasting, I said, "I don't believe for a minute it's more durable." I read that as not lasting longer, rather lasting the same.
Feb 10, 2003 11:20 AM
|Sorry, no, I was not replying to you specifically, re durability. I have a habit of posting my opinion on a thread in the wrong place.|
Feb 10, 2003 8:04 PM
|record is not more durable than Chorus, Period. Chorus uses beefier and more durable steel parts while Record shaves weight with carbon and ti bits and pieces which will not outlast Chorus parts. Record is about buyer ego, flash, extremely minor insignificant weight savings and huge incremental price increases over Chorus parts. It does not shift smoother, brake better or last longer than Chorus, no it doesn't.|
|if I were buying...||BenR|
Feb 10, 2003 8:35 PM
|If you want a superlight bike and can afford it, full Record would last a long time and look very nice. If you can't afford it but still want a nice performing ride, here's what I would do:
Record crank - stiffer and much lighter than Chorus and price may be coming down due to everyone wanting the carbon version. I have the Chorus crank and it seems fine too. Definitely stiffer than Daytona or Veloce.
Daytona cassette (unless you want 11-21 gearing then will have to buy record) - same teeth as the super tough Chorus version, slightly heavier spacers. Maybe go with Chorus for $10 more and ~20 ? grams less, but definitely not record.
Daytona hubs - not as fancy looking and slightly heavier quick release but same internals and much cheaper. You have to buy record if you want 28 holes - the Italians have recently learned about marketing from the Japaneese.
Chorus F derailleur - from Shimano experience, I went with Daytona the first time around. When I had to replace due to a crash, I found that the Chorus one was much stiffer even though I couldn't find any visual differences.
Chorus shifters - rock solid, ball bearings, and significantly lighter and crisper than Daytona for a bit more dough. Record aint worth the huge price jump for a few grams less. Carbon looks cool but it depends on what you value - have also heard of carbon levers snapping...I've used both and they perform the same, other than the carbon levers feel different against bare hands. I prefer plain old metal.
Daytona brakes - much cheaper than Record or Chorus - about the same weight as Chorus dual pivots - My Daytonas are very powerful and pretty smooth but have nothing to compare to.
Chorus derailleur - cheaper to replace than Record, still pretty light, and you can get the short cage version. Daytona only comes in middle cage or longer. I think they are otherwise identical regarding metals and springs. Record derailleur has a carbon outerplate and titanium hanger (I think).
The only difference between Record and Chorus is weight and cost. The crank is stiffer but the titanium cogs wear quicker. Durability and mechanical performance is otherwise IDENTICAL. I would go with a mix and spend some of the savings on a good mechanic that you trust to build your bike for you and it will be money well spent.
|if I were buying...||Rob Sal|
Feb 11, 2003 1:03 AM
|Few contradictions there I think, you say the Record crank is 'much lighter than Chorus' when the difference is 35gms on something in the region of 650g, yet you say Daytona/Centaur brakes are about the same weight as Chorus when the difference is 36gms on something that weighs in the region of 350gms!
You say Record Ergos are a huge price gap over Chorus (which is not the case here)yet a Record Crank is very nearly twice the price of Chorus here for the same weight reduction (percentage wise).
Although the carbon levers are easily scratched on a wall if not careful, every alloy brake lever I have ever had has looked crap after a couple of seasons through sweat corrosion from fingers. My carbon Ergos still look in shop condition after two years. They do get a bit slippy in the rain though!
|I stand corrected...||BenR|
Feb 11, 2003 10:21 PM
|I was going from memory and did not consider the fact that weights and, more likely, prices have changed since I bought my parts two years ago. I am certain that the Chorus & Daytona/Centuar brakes I bought were almost identical weight wise - within 1-2 grams and a $50-55 price difference. Bearings and better modulation weren't worth it in my mind, but then again, I haven't tried Chorus/Record. Perhaps the new Chorus single pivot rear has something to do with the weight confusion?
The Record crank is certainly expensive, but my point was that the price seems to be coming down. If you could find a deal, I would consider going with a Record crank for $180 rather than Chorus for $115 (ebay prices)since it is rotating mass - not a wheel, but still rotating mass that you have to spin in a sprint. Also, I have ridden a similar frame with same pedals and a Record crank and noticed the stiffness difference. I'm 170 lbs and more of a spinner - so "Ambishawn" might want to take his body size and riding style into account to decide if the Record crank is worth it. Of course, going to the trouble to track one down for the right price might not be worth his time.
I'm also sure that there was more than the current $30 difference between Chorus and Record ergos - the record levers are probably worth the upgrade now. After two years of riding in all conditions, the finish of my Chorus levers is beyond question, unlike my old Veloce and RSX 100 levers. I crashed on them pretty hard this summer and they held up well - they have surprisingly few scratches on the edges and seem to be made of some pretty tough alloy. They survived the crash but my skin and handlebars didn't.
Thanks for pointing out the holes in my story and happy pedaling.