|Campy 9spd v Dura ace 9spd||Litebike|
Jan 26, 2003 6:58 AM
|Campy record 9spd :v Dura ace 9spd
and does campy 10spd shift better ? than both 9spds
I know i just open a can of worms but i am thinking of a upgrade from my record 8spd and would like advice not a bike shop sales pitch .
|forget 9 speed...||C-40|
Jan 26, 2003 10:34 AM
|If you want a real upgrade move on to 10 speed. Nothing shifts better. If you use a 12-25 cassette you get the important 16 tooth cog and a 25T bailout gear that can be useful.
If money is an issue, consider the Chorus group. It will function identically to Record, just weighs a few ounces more. Durability will actually be better with the all steel cassette. The Chorus group is also about $100 cheaper than DuraAce. At an equal price, you could upgrade one or two components to Record.
Campy just changed the method of joining the 10 speed chain. A special tool is still recommended to install the new HD-L connecting pin, but you can get buy with a standard high quality chain tool. Another option for joining the chain is the Wipperman 10 speed "connex" link. They only cost $5 and allow the chain to be assembled and disassembled without tools. You can buy a dozen for the price of a Campy chain tool.
I've been using the 10 speed system for three seasons. No regrets.
|forget 9 speed...||altidude|
Jan 26, 2003 2:19 PM
|How about saving some cash on the 10 speed setup and running a Dura Ace crank, BB, and F Der with Chorus 10 shifters, rear derailleur and cassette?|
Jan 26, 2003 3:10 PM
|A DA crank costs about the same as a Record crank and the Record looks a lot better.
The DA bottom bracket takes another special tool to install and has a poor reputation for durability.
If you want to save a few bucks, use the Record crank with a Chorus BB.
Jan 26, 2003 4:51 PM
|A D/A crank not only has a far superior BB interface, splined than Campy, but the D/A crank also weighs 70 grams less than the Record crank. The whole point of my post was to build a group with about the weight of Record for hundreds of dollars less. Don't like the D/A BB? Fine, then go with Ultegra and save even more money. In addition, forget about the Campy brakes. For only $35 more than the Chorus brakes you can get the new Diacomp 200SL's which weigh 60 grams less than the Record brakes. If you build a bike up with Chorus rear der, shifters and cassette, Diacomp SL brakes and D/A crank, front derailleur and Ultegra BB you not only have a much much better splined crank interface, but a crank that's about 70 grams lighter (less rotating weight) than Record and a total grouppo that weighs in total a bit less than Record, and the real kicker is you will still spend hundreds, yes hundreds less than what a complete Record group would cost using the mixed group I described above, I'll be happy to post the individual pricing of parts if you would like. Considering it weighs 632 grams, the price of the Record alloy crank is silly as is most of the rest of that grouppo.|
|$40 dollars in savings...||C-40|
Jan 26, 2003 7:09 PM
|The DA crank is $5 less than Record. The BB is $35 less. These prices from the latest Excel catalog.
Your point about the weight is certainly correct, but the spline interface superiority is debatable. I've never had a problem with a tapered spindle in the last 20 years.
If you want to save $400 bucks a Chorus group is the simple answer. At least the parts are made to work together.
If you're a weight weenie, price is usually no object. Those with more sense know that (too) light weight products often sacrifice performance. Remember some of those noodle ultralight cranks that were on the market for a short while, like toplines?
|It is not $40 in savings, read my post||altidude|
Jan 26, 2003 7:50 PM
|The basic group which I am building to be lighter than Record 10 and described above starts with CHORUS 10, NOT RECORD parts.
A Chorus 10 kit at excelsports.com costs $900, while a Record build kit costs $1290, that's a $390 difference! Assuming you start with the $900 Chorus 10 kit, now swap your Chorus 10 crank for a D/A crank - a D/A crank costs exactly $75 more than a Chorus 10 crank ($190-$115). Next swap an Ultegra BB for a Chorus 10 BB - an Ultegra BB costs $8 LESS than a Chorus BB ($43-35). Next swap your Chorus 10 brakes for the Diacompe BRS 200SL brakes - these brakes cost exactly $55 more than Chorus 10 brakes ($170-$115). Finally, sawp a Chorus 10 front derailleur for the D/A front derailleur - this derailleur costs $17 LESS than a Chorus 10 front Der ($60-$43). The net cost of these 4 changes to the basic $900 Chorus 10 group is -8-17+55+75= $105. Add $105 to a basic Chorus 10 kit costing $900 and you arrive at $1005, still nearly $300 LESS than a full Record 10 kit costing $1290. Gramwise, the grouppo I have described above with the D/A crank and front derailleur and Ultegra BB plus diacompe brakes with a Chorus 10 rear derailleur, chain, and ALL steel cassette weighs exactly 23 grams LESS than a standard Record 10 kit with a ti/steel cassette which has poorer durability of the ti cogs. For an additional $10 if you go to a D/A BB instead of an Ultegra BB the difference becomes almost 70 grams in my mixed groups favor versus pure Record 10 while still costing about $275 less. In addition, your crank interface is STIFFER and your rotating crank weighs 70+ grams LESS than the Record 10 crank.
It's funny how Campy fans state things such as it has not been proven that the splined crank interface is superior to the square tapered spindle design yet if you talk to anyone in the industry but Campy they'll tell you how it's better, stiffer, just a technologically superior design! At the same time, these Campy fans have no problem whatsoever talking about how Campy is "supposedly superior" to Shimano as if these were written in stone FACTS, yet in reality they possess even less real factual basis than the contention that Shimano's splined BB is a superior design. For barely over $1000 I just built a 10 speed grouppo that is lighter than Record 10, most importantly my D/A crankset has significantly less rotational weight on the crank itself, transfers power more efficiently to the drivetrain due to the splined interface and I saved almost $300 to boot which could go for a wheel upgrade or basically allow me to buy a free pair of OP's built with Record hubs and DT Rev spokes, NOT BAD huh?
|finally some clarity...||C-40|
Jan 27, 2003 5:55 AM
|My first response suggested buying Chorus, which is $400 cheaper than Record but a few ounces heavier.
Now you've progressed to a bastard group that costs $100 more than Chorus, but its a few ounces lighter. A serious campy user wouldn't be caught dead with this grab bag mixture.
I'd buy a chorus group and add $30 for Record ergo levers.
|now, THAT I have to take issue with||weiwentg|
Jan 27, 2003 6:14 AM
|whatever works, works. I have Record, Chorus, Centaur, DA, and Ultegra parts on my bike. I kid you not. you can dismiss me as a non-serious Campy user. but what's the big deal, exactly? I will willingly admit that Campy has snob factor, and that I certainly don't mind having some of it. I will also admit that the snob factor would increase if I had full Record. but there's a point where snob factor becomes pointless arrogance. if the damn thing works, it works.
btw, were this discussion not about a TT or a climbing bike, I would probably forget the BRS200s. either that, or I'd keep one double-pivot caliper in front and put a BRS200 in back - I think you can get them separately.
Jan 27, 2003 9:13 AM
|I have no problem with folks using any combination of parts that work. I'm sure everyone who does it has a reason, be it cost, weight savings or because "it's what I've got".
I won't be putting any shimano stuff on my record equipped bike. Don't care how light it is.
I also don't own several cheap bikes with a mish-mash of old parts like some folks. I prefer to own one very nice ride. It's actually cheaper to own and operate than several cheap bikes. A lot of folks who bitch about the price of the Record group have more invested in two Ultegra equipped bikes.
My Record equipped C-40 fufills all my riding needs with one set of wheels and one cassette. When it's 2-3 years old I'll sell it in mint condition and try something else for awhile.
|my main beef...||weiwentg|
Jan 27, 2003 12:35 PM
|I guess my main beef is your image of a cheap bike with a mishmash of old parts. that may not be the case with every single individual who chooses to mix components. lots of MTBs have mixed components. I know a guy who rides a Colnago MXL who also mixes his components (he's still riding 9-speed on a respaced cassette, btw). and lonefrontranger mentioned another cyclist she knows who runs DA cranks on an otherwise Campy Record setup. I don't deny that lots of cheap bikes have no-name brakes and Cyclone (who??) cranks with unlabelled hubs/rims mixed in with proper components, but not everyone who mixes component groups has a cheap bike, or does not know what the hell s/he is doing.|
|my main beef...||altidude|
Jan 27, 2003 6:54 PM
|Actually most guys who mix and match grouppos know a hell of a lot more about their grouppos in general and the individual components far more than those who buy a complete premanufactured grouppos who don't really understand how to mix and match components from different makers, especially in the drivetrain. I know a guy who runs an Ultegra 8 speed crank with a Chorus 9 speed setup and another Ultegra 8 speed crank with a chorus 10 setup and these bikes shift beautifully as i have tried them out. This guy has probably forgotten more wrench stuff than most guys could learn in 2 or 3 lifetimes. He mixes components because he's always seeking the best setup for his budget and needs, not what others think will look prettiest or most conforming on his bike like many of the poseurs out there.|
|no problem...love my Record 9||atpjunkie|
Jan 27, 2003 1:18 PM
|being a bigger rider, watching 130 lb climbing feathers snap professionally maintained and barely ridden Campy 10 chains in last few years classics and tours, I have lost all confidence in it. I feel the same about shimano MTB 9 where I've broken chains (never will use Shimano chain again) my Record 9 has behaved wonderfully and I will stick to it as long as possible. please keep me in mind if any of you plan on dumping some of you "outdated" 9 speed pieces.|
|finally some clarity...||altidude|
Jan 27, 2003 6:40 PM
|That's the most ridiculous post I have seen to date in here. A bastardized group??? How many Campy lovers do you see running their "pure" Campy Only grouppos with Chris King headsets, FSA carbon cranks, and all other sorts of non Campy manufactured "bastardized" parts??? Many, many in fact do just this. Are all these pure campy guys running only Campy wheelsets or Campy headsets? NO, not even close!! I get a kick out of people calling mixing Shimano parts with a Campy group a bastardization, but if you mix a Campy group with an FSA part, a Chris King part, a Mavic part, an Easton part, etc... or any other number of non campy manufactured parts, then it's mysteriously becomes OK and non bastardized by some act of God. Are all Campy Only guys running ONLY Campagnolo seatposts on their Campy only setups? NO, I'll bet not even 1/3 of them are, but they are pure Campy setups right????? Bastardized grouppo??? Funny but I know many racers who in fact run D/A cranks with campy drivetrains for the very reasons I stated above. I guess they and their bikes like being black sheep. BAHahahahahahahahhaa|
Jan 28, 2003 5:16 AM
|Geez, grow up. Were talking bicycles. As I noted, to each his own. You're the one who went way off track, as though the original poster asked how to create the lightest mix of parts that will still function together.
If you honestly think that saving a couple of ounces is worth swapping brands and buying more installation tools, fine by me.
I may be as guilty as anyone. Although my groupo appears to be all Campy Record, I've got a Chorus BB hidden in there because it's just as durable, costs half as much and I don't care about a couple of ounces of extra weight. I also have a Chorus cassette that's much cheaper and more durable than the Record cassette. I use Speedplay stainless steel pedals because the Ti version isn't worth the money to me. Don't care for Campy pedals. I also use Ksyrium wheels, so I don't have campy hubs, but I'm not dumb enough to use wheels that only accept a shimano cassette.
Jan 28, 2003 2:26 PM
|Grow up??? Go take a look in the mirror C-40, I'm not the one calling other people names such as crybaby. Then again, namecalling is what less intelligent individuals are relegated to when they have nothing lucid to say anymore. You telling someone to grow up C-40 sounds an awful lot like the pot calling the kettle black son. If you were not interested in my "off track" posts why did you keep responding to them? Don't bother responding, your bastardization comment pretty much displays your lack of objectivity and cluelessness on the subject.|
Jan 26, 2003 5:36 PM
|the DA BB needs maintenance. if it's maintained, it's durable enough. if it's a race-only bike, it should be fine. I run mine all the time, in Michigan weather, and it's been fine (although I have had to - gasp! - regrease it). yes, it needs another tool. DA cranks are lighter than Record. all right, so it's not by much, but...|
Jan 26, 2003 8:05 PM
|I run both Campy and Shimano and I guess this is how I have evolved myself into using mixed groups. My experience with mixed groups is that if you do it right they shift as well as proprietary single branded groups. I have been running a D/A bb on one of my bikes for 2 years now and I have never had a failure with it or the problems that many people describe, it does require a bit more TLC than most other BB's, but since I like working on mechanical things this isn't a problem. The D/A crank isn't just a bit lighter than the Record crank, its 72 grams lighter which is a good deal of weight considering that its rotational torque related weight. Even more important IMO is the splined BB interface which is used with the D/A crank, it is simply a stiffer and technologically superior design to the Campy spare tapered spindle design and it transfers power more effieiently to the drivetrain from the pedal stroke, a double win as far as performance is concerned IMO.|
|re: Campy 9spd v Dura ace 9spd||MR_GRUMPY|
Jan 26, 2003 3:20 PM
|Both Campy 9 speed and Dura Ace 9 speed work great, and are all that anyone really needs. If you can't make it over that hill with the bunch with 9 gears, you're not going to make it with 10. Actually, you could say the same thing about 8 speeds. Once you get the cogs and chain so narrow, you are bound to have problems down the road. I hope that the rumors about Shimano going to 10 or 11 or ?, is just BS.
One other benifit of Campy 9 speed, is that you can use a Shimano wheel if you have to.
|re: Campy 9spd v Dura ace 9spd||altidude|
Jan 26, 2003 4:57 PM
|That i concurr with as well. Most recreational riders place about 100 times more emphasis on their equipment than actually makes a difference in real world riding situations. No additional single cog is gonna by osmosis or some other mysterious force suddenly give you the ability to ride with guys either on flats or climbing who were dropping you before. Anyone who believes that nonsense is kidding themselves, others and basically just ladeling out a bunch of nonsense. If 10 versus 9 made such a huge difference all the races would be won by guys using 10 speeds, guess what, they are not. Your engine will ultimately determine how you perform, not what components, frame or fork you are sitting on top of.|
|Yes!||Trent in WA|
Jan 26, 2003 9:47 PM
|Campy 9v is interoperable with Shimano 9v, so if you want to, you can run Campy shifters and derailleurs with Shimano hubs and cassettes. You get a better selection of cassettes, slightly less dish on your rear wheel, arguably better seals on the hubs, rebuildable brifters, and the ability to run pretty much any chainwheel combination you want up front. And depending on how you spec the combination, you can save mucho $$.
Jan 27, 2003 5:42 AM
|What a poor suggestion. First to run an outdated 9 speed system and then screw it up by using a cassette that has different spacing (4.32 vs. 4.55mm) to guarantee mediocre shifting.
The spacing difference between campy and shimano accumulates to a minimum of 20% on the fourth shift. If the derailleur is not adjusted to center on the middle cog, the erro can accumaulate to 40%. It's not a great idea.
Jan 27, 2003 5:54 AM
|There are two Cat 2 men and one Cat 1 woman on our team that went with Campy 9 for just that reason. Shimano 9 and Campy 9 should not work together, but it does. Don't ask me why, but it works fine. I guess that Cat 2's are just dumb.|
Jan 27, 2003 6:01 AM
|In campy terms, 10 speed has been out for three years. I got rid of all my 9 speed parts three years ago. I'm starting my fourth season on 10 speed.
As for the spacing difference, the difference between campy 10 speed and shimano 9 speed spacing is a nearly identical .20mm. A shimano 9 cassette should work about the same on a campy 10 drivetrain.
|real world, real needs...||philippec|
Jan 27, 2003 6:47 AM
|Here in France, and in many other european countries, 9-speed is far from dead! I am just in the process of converting/rebuilding my 10-speed shifters to 9-speed so that I can get a neutral support wheel more easily. Most of the teams and neutral support vehicles run 9 speed shimano and/or campagnolo wheels at my level (cat3-2). It is a major bummer having to let a breakaway accelerate away as you sit around putzing on a 10 speed set-up w/ a replacement 9-speed wheel while your team car is blocked at the back of the pack! When I can be assured of getting a 10 speed wheel when I need it, I'll switch back... until then, I will run 9-speed like the rest of the pack!
|ever tired it???||C-40|
Jan 27, 2003 8:59 AM
|Ever tried using a 9 speed shimano wheel on a 10 speed drivetrain? The difference in spacing is no different than than shimano 9 and campy 9. The campy 10 derailleur will undershift by about 5% per shift, while the campy 9 derailleur will overshift by 5%.
Either one is likely to require a change in the cable tension to get the shifting to work decent.
|ever tired it???||koala|
Jan 27, 2003 1:11 PM
|I have and I have to tell you it never shifts as well as the full campy set up.|
|The only thing outdated is your train of thought C-40||altidude|
Jan 28, 2003 2:28 PM
|or should I say lack of.|
|NO!!!||Trent in WA|
Jan 29, 2003 11:17 PM
|This is a "poor suggestion" I received from Peter Chisholm (recently profiled in Bicycling--he's the wrench with the Campy tattoo on his ankle) via the rec.bikes.tech Usenet group. I got the same advice from Sheldon Brown. The setup shifts perfectly well--as well as the straight Campy setup did.
Have you had any actual experience using combined Shimano/Campy drivetrains, or are you simply blowing smoke?
|not blowing smoke...||C-40|
Jan 30, 2003 8:39 AM
|As (former) machinist and a mechanical engineer who designs and builds mechanical systems, I rely on the numbers to point out what's happening when you mix components that don't match. The campy derailleur overshifts by .23mm on each shift. The positioning error get progressively worse as you shift across the cassette, because the errors add together.
The success of this mixture depends heavily on the ability of the user to properly adjust the rear derailleur to distribute the minimum 20% positioning error. If you understand that the rear derailleur has to be centered on the middle cog and carefully adjust the rear derailleur to accomplish this, the shifting will work adequately, but certainly not perfectly. Users who have the best luck either get this adjustment right by luck, or they understand what's going on and adjust accordingly. Users who report the worst results probably don't understand how to adjust the the derailleur to get the best shifting.
If you try to adjust the derailleur in the normal manner, with good alignment on the smallest cog, the derailleur would overshift so badly that it would try to jump two cogs by the time you got to the 6th or 7th shift.
The reason that most folks don't have too much trouble with this setup is due to the fact that the majority of riding time is spent on only a few of the middle cogs. If you get the derailleur adjusted to work adequately on these cogs, the rest are considered tolerable.
If you're determined to use a shimano hub on a campy drivetrain, a Wheels Manufacturing cassette with the proper spacing would produce better results.
|argh, I should probably shut the hell up, but||weiwentg|
Jan 30, 2003 2:56 PM
|yes, the derailleur will overshift by the amount you stated, but there is this thing called the rideable range of adjustment. yes, you don't align on the smallest cog (I think I aligned mine on the second smallest). but the damn thing still works. if my bike were bigger and the chain angles less severe, it might work almost perfectly. and even now my shifting is NOT poor.
we appreciate the input and the technical knowledge. but life is not all about following the book to the letter. be a little more flexible.
|didn't say it wouldn't work...||C-40|
Jan 30, 2003 5:10 PM
|I explained why it will work, but not perfectly like a lot of folks contend. Hopefully the info will help someone understand how to adjust this setup properly, if they intend to try it.
I've never "aligned" the derailleur on any cog. When a derailleur cable is first installed, both the the frame and derailleur cable adjusters should be screwed all the way in for miniumum tension. Usually a turn or two is required to get enough tension on the cable to get it to shift from the smallest cog to the 2nd cog. Another quarter turn or so and you're in business. With a properly spaced cassette, if the first couple of shifts are good, all shifts will be good.
If I had a bunch of money invested in shimano equipment I might even try it. I'm more inclined to sell my unwanted equipment. That's what I did with all of my campy 9 parts, immediately after trying 10 speed.
What I hate to see is someone encouraging others to buy new equipment that isn't designed to work together. If you're going to invest money in new equipment, it's a lot smarter to buy parts that are designed to function with one another.
|he can't help it||atpjunkie|
Jan 30, 2003 8:12 PM
|he's an engineer. that's how they see the world. everything fits to the micron|
Jan 30, 2003 8:37 PM
|first: when I was an engineering student, I could help it. if engineers couldn't help it, then there would be no rideable range of adjustment.
second: I swear to whatever is holy that I'll shut the ---- up now. if I get into pissing matches over politics, fine. that matters to me, it's a very divisive issue that affects our lives deeply, and so on. Campy vs Shimano doesn't. this whole thing is juvenile. the world will NOT end whether or not people defect from Shimano, defect from Campy, mix drivetrain components, or whatever. let's all just ride the bloody bikes.
Jan 31, 2003 10:37 AM
|true. then again as a Graphic designer (and one who lives "outside the box") who does a lot of work for engineers I see this over the top retentiveness on a weekly basis. They send 4 pages of Data and text to be "designed" into a one page ad (with a half page photo of their product). My usual response is "now you guys are the math experts, how do we fit 4 into .5?" then I force them to break it into 5 bullet points and a "for more info go to www.......com." becuase they will go and read it.
Yes, remember theya re only bikes. Weeeeeeeeee!
|re: Campy 9spd||Leroy|
Jan 27, 2003 9:02 AM
|I have all '9 speeds' because that was what was out when I built the bikes up. I like 9-speed and really have not been hunting for another one. I'm about to recycle some of the 9-speed parts over to a new frame. I have zero complaints with 9-speed campy, so I really don't see a reason to change. Maybe some day when they completely run out of 9-speed stuff I'll have to change, but not today!|
|and one more thing...||Leroy|
Jan 27, 2003 9:11 AM
|Unless you just have the parts from Shimano and Campy laying around the garage and just absolutely have to use them for finance reasons,and cannot ride unless you use them, don't go screwing around mixing the brands. Campy 9-speed is probably about the same price new at branfordbike or excel sports as 10. So if you're just starting don't swim upstream, go with 10 speed. I'm sticking with 9-speed right now just because that's what I already have: 3 bikes worth. If you want the lightest weight just save up and go with record. If you want to save a little money, go with chorus. Frankly, there's not a thing wrong with Centaur, I like it best for some uses. In short, C-40's right.|
|re: Campy 9spd v Dura ace 9spd||Litebike|
Jan 27, 2003 3:58 PM
|I guess i opened that can of worms!!!!!!!
my Question is or was does the campy 9spd shift as well as the 10spd and if money did not matter IMEAN IF THEY COST THE SAME what would most of you put on your bikes ? dura ace9spd or campy 9spd? for me the 9spd is more compatible with my 8spd so i could buy record parts a little at a time or should i change my whole group to dura ace or 10spd???????????????
|re: Campy 9spd v Dura ace 9spd||atpjunkie|
Jan 27, 2003 5:09 PM
|Like I said in my post Happy with Campy 9. IMHO , I like the ergo more than D/A. like the fact that levers are repairable vs. replaceable. I like to be able to shift down multi-gears at a time, plus do it with my thumb from the drops. I also like the stable brake lever feel vs. STI's moving brake. I'm not knocking D/A and I'm no Campy fascist I'm just happier with my Record 9. Plus the Carbon levers are SEXY! Way cheaper for you to upgrade than a whole mfr. switch. lever(s), rear der., cassette and chain. you can keep your cranks, BB (new rings...I'd change so they wear with new cassette and chain) and brakes. best part you can get deals on some 9 stuff. check the web (ebay, the classifieds here etc...) I bet you can get it done for under 500 easy|
|Stick with Campy||MR_GRUMPY|
Jan 27, 2003 5:37 PM
|It would be silly to change everything over to Dura Ace. Your 8 speed levers could be rebuild to either 9 or 10 speed. I just happen to feel that Campy 9 speed is easier to take care of, and doesn't take special expensive tools to maintain. The only thing that you will need is a new 9/10 speed rear wheel and a 9 speed cassette.
One of my bikes is 8 speed Campy also. If the springs die, I plan to have it rebuilt with old style 9 speed cams because I have an old style Chorus 9 speed rear der. in my parts bin. I will then use it with my 9 speed Shimano wheels.
|re: Campy 9spd v Dura ace 9spd||Litebike|
Jan 28, 2003 5:23 AM
|Thanks to all!!! for the help I think i will build campy record 9spd start with shifters and rear derailer. I already have record brakes(1995) that work great!and don't think the newer ones are better????new cassette and rear wheel should be good for this year i already have my record crank 8spd which will work with 9spd. Phil Wood BB which is in great working order and with new rings i think i will be set!THANKS AGAIN TO EVERYONE who helped!!!|
|re: Campy 9spd v Dura ace 9spd||NoahD|
Jan 28, 2003 5:14 PM
|I have used both DA and Chorus (9-spd only) on two bikes. They both work quite well, and I'm sure the 10 spd works great too. I hate the Campy simply because I grew up with Shimano STI and the Campy levers just feel wrong. If you are used to something and like it, probably best to stay with it.|
|Give it up ALTIDUDE||tommy t|
Jan 28, 2003 8:55 PM
|I'm sorry but after reading your responses, you have no clue.
If you were a real bike mechanic or bike knowledgeable, you would never mix shifting and gearing of shimano with campy or vice versa. Why save the extra bucks and/or weight loss for medicore performance??? If you DO run shimano/campy then your chain is grinding and you don't even know it.
|Give it up ALTIDUDE||altidude|
Jan 28, 2003 9:24 PM
|Oh, I guess all the guys racing this exact setup don't know what they are doing or that their chain is grinding either right smart guy? What exactly is your chain grinding on, please inform me tommy t? The Shimano crank chainrings ramp up the Campy 10 speed chain just fine and although the spindle lengths are different on the bottom brackets, because the crank configurations themselves are also different, by the time the cranks are installed the chainrings from both Shimano and Campy are virtually in the same exact position relative to the cassette for proper chainline orientation. But you already knew this didn't you tommy t from your wealth of bike mechanic experience?
If someone was real bike knowledgeable or a real bike mechanic they would never mix Shimano and Campy shifting???? Please tell me who or where you learned this from genius?
|Give it up||atpjunkie|
Jan 28, 2003 10:09 PM
|can I put wasabi on my bruschetta? can I put marinara on udon noodles? this reminds me, in the seventies there was this Spaghetti Western with Charles Bronson and a Samurai. Does anyone remember the name? He had to get this sword back that was a going to be a gift from the Emperor of Japan to the President but it was stolen from the train they were on. great film, gun fights and Samurai stab and slash, plus bad ass knife throwing in ending battle scene. wow, I digress, must be the "supplements" I'm taking to get faster. Kidding. lighten up ya'll.|
Jan 29, 2003 5:25 AM
|There is no issue whatsoever with running a Shimano 9 speed, even a Shimano 8 speed crank on a Campagnolo 10 system. Especially the 9 speed cranks who's chainrings have almost the exact same chainline position relative to the bikes bottom bracket shell as do Campagnolo 10 crankset chainrings. Campy 10 speed ergolevers move the front derailleurs with friction not index shifting, they will shift just about any pair of crankset chainrings that you choose to put on your bike and the thickness of the chainring teeth is so minute as to cause zero problems with the thinner chain ramping up on the rings smoothly. I have built up $6000 bike for customers using this mix of drivetrain components, it works, Learn the facts before opening your yapper, no information is far better than misinformatiuon.|
|not totally right either...||C-40|
Jan 29, 2003 9:41 AM
|You're perfectly correct with regard to the chainring spacing. A shimano crank may be located about 1mm, perhaps a little more to the right, since there is a little over 2mm difference in the length of the campy and shimano cassette. This difference is too small to cause a problem though.
The left Campy ergo lever does not use friction to move the front derailleur. The left shifter has a rachet wheel with distinct clicks that can be counted off, just like the right side.
Maybe I'll get ambitious tonight, count the clicks and measure the total cable travel to see if it's the same as the right side. I've previously measured the cable travel on the right side and know the total travel and the amount of cable travel per shift, which by the way, is not the same for each shift.
Please no flames, this post is meant to be informative.
|not totally right either...||atpjunkie|
Jan 29, 2003 1:18 PM
|asking for no flames after titling your post
not totally right either...
is a tad contadictory
you need a conflict management / resolution seminar
|not totally right either...||Rob Sal|
Feb 5, 2003 11:30 AM
|What a fascinating conversation. I know I am going to get abused but I would say, at the present time, with spares for all gear options still available, match like with like. When spares become hard to find, or if on a budget worry about imperfect shifts then, and only then.|| |