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Wheel stiffness and lacing(9 posts)

Wheel stiffness and lacingWoof the dog
Dec 24, 2002 11:07 AM
There is an article from an old bicycling magazine, when it used to be good, written a/ the results of the study one guy did. He has built a lot of wheels using the same exact components (hubs, rims and i guess spokes/nipples) but with different lacing patterns radial, 1x,2x,3x and 4x. He then measured the wind-up, lateral and vertical stiffness. Windup was really bad for a radial lacing. Vertical stiffness was the same i think, and laterally, the deviations between the samples in each particular group were larger than the deviations between the groups. I hope i explained that ok.

I was also told that the reason my bikeshop builds with 3 cross most of the time is because if they didn't, the idiotic people would come in and start giving them shit just because they think 3cross is the only
way to build wheels. What a bunch of idiots. Ugh!

Woof the irritated dog.
Woof...gtx
Dec 24, 2002 1:04 PM
You're taking this all way too seriously.
Yeah, why are you taking all of this so seriously?Barnyard
Dec 24, 2002 2:02 PM
Hit anything hard enough, and you'll put a flat spot on any wheel no matter how it's laced up. Sure a hand built wheel is better than a factory built wheel, and a factory built wheel that has been checked over and trued by a competant mechanic is better than a factory built wheel that has had nothing done to it. However, a spoked wheel is a spoked wheel. It you can tell me differently, I'd love to hear it.
Hey, I REMEMBER that story, and I was interested at the time...Silverback
Dec 24, 2002 2:52 PM
...but I can't remember why.
Why are you irritated?Spoke Wrench
Dec 25, 2002 10:45 AM
Why are you devoting so much of your energy to this topic? What possible difference could it make to you how many spokes I cross when I build a wheel?
Why are you irritated?Woof the dog
Dec 25, 2002 6:18 PM
Why are people so retarded as to build 3 cross when 2 cross is just as good? Moreover, they suggest that 3 cross is somehow a standard. D'oh!
Not only are you wrong, you are in need of about 4 beers, dude..sprockets2
Dec 26, 2002 11:55 AM
as there ARE performance differences between the lacing on wheels. I would be careful about hanging my hat on this supposed holy grail of wheel testing that you "found", as there is no guarantee that he did the preparation that would make it legitimate.

There are several things that make me hesitate to believe his "data". The major one, which ought to have jumped out and cracked you over the head, is for him to have found more lateral stiffness differences within groups than between them. This raises a huge-o red flag. Inconsistent build and/or failure to establish standards for comparison. I can understand that there might be a question of group to group lateral strength equivalence in the comparisons if spoke tension is not assigned correctly. This is because there is a major issue of "at what tension for each of the wheels are you comparing apples and apples".

Your statement that 2x is "just as good" is sorta weird. Good for what? For drive side on a road wheel? For non-drive on a MTB with disc brakes? For a front wheel on the road? My front wheels that are 2x are pretty good and I cannot tell if I am on one of those or a 3x'er, but I don't get pissed off about it. Woof seriously now, have a brewsky.
add in 4 jello shotsWoof the dog
Dec 26, 2002 6:23 PM
and you will see me barf on my friends. :-(

I was talking about your regular rear drive side or a front road wheel, both 32 or 28 spokes. I don't know if i completely believe this little thing that I 'found', but it appears that from the overall impression i gather from different sources, people don't usually, if ever, have flanges broken and attribute that to 2 cross versus 3 cross. So why not build 2 cross and feel good about having just as reliable of a wheel, and also the one that looks a little bit different and actually weighs less (yes, less by a rediculous amount, but nevertheless LESS).

See?

Woof the dog.
it could be argued that...sprockets2
Dec 26, 2002 8:57 PM
3x wheel lacing is largely an artifact of the past-weak rims and mediocre spokes-and is no longer an absolute requirement, plus how could what is best on the drive side be the same system required on a front?

If you had just said *that* I don't think we would have worried about you. It does seem that 2x is a good deal for a normal road front wheel. I think that you could use it on the NDS effectively, and you could probably do OK with it on the DS as well, especially if you were not a racer type. I still like 3x on DS as it just looks that it is the most effective way to transmit drive force. It does worry me a bit that this is not really a laterally strong situation, in spite of the high tension.