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Tooth counts for Ultegra/DA cassettes.(22 posts)

Tooth counts for Ultegra/DA cassettes.Fujiman
Dec 19, 2002 9:58 AM
Does anyone know where I can find the 9speed tooth counts for cogs on the various cassettes available? I couldn't find them on the Shimano site. I'd like to fiddle with my gearing to give me custom combinations. Thanks.
re: Tooth counts for Ultegra/DA cassettes.pmf1
Dec 19, 2002 10:03 AM
You really can't fiddle with your gearing to give yourself custom combinations since over half of the cogs on Shimano cassettes are fused together. They are meant to work in the particular combination they come in. Just decide what the largest tooth cog you can live with is (e.g. 21, 23, 25, or 27) and buy that cassette.

Swapping the small chainring (39 vs 42) gives some additional range.
re: Tooth counts for Ultegra/DA cassettes.Juanmoretime
Dec 19, 2002 10:45 AM
I can't say it wouldn't shift correctly. Back in the days of seven speed, plus I live in a very flat area. You could get a 12-19 seven speed but I wanted a straight block, so I ordered a 16 tooth cog, since that was the one missing and threw out the 19. Everyone told me it wouldn't shift correctly because of the shift gates built into the cog, it worked totally flawless. You can probably order individual 8 speed cogs from you LBS and get your buddies loose spacers from their worn out 9 speed cassette's and build what you want. Me, I'm happy with my 12-21 or 12-23 nine speed Dura Ace cassette's.

LoL
Mavic cogs are all looseDougSloan
Dec 19, 2002 10:55 AM
They are a little heavy and aren't ramped, but the Mavic cassettes are all loose cogs, and if you buy several, you can do nearly any combination you want. Plus, the same cogs can be used for 9 or 10 speed, with different spacers.

See: http://www.mavic.com/servlet/srt/mavic/road-prod_fiche?produitsid=90&lg=uk

"The M10 Cassette can be used in several combinations as each cog is individually mounted.

There are 4 different cassette kits to answer a wide range of combinations and each kit has a different start cog. Kit n°1,11 tooth; kit n°2,12 tooth; kit n°3, 13 tooth or kit n°4,14 tooth.

Kits 1 and 4 have 10 cogs, Kit 2 has 11 cogs and Kit 3 has 12 cogs. The largest cog of 27 teeth is included in kit n°3. Spacers are incuded in each kit, use yellow spacers for 9 speed and the black spacers for 10 speed.

The M10 cassette can be mounted on Shimano HG type of free wheel body as well on a 10 speed Campagnolo."
re: Tooth counts for Ultegra/DA cassettes.Fujiman
Dec 19, 2002 11:05 AM
I have an Ultegra 12-21 cassette. 9 speed. The 12-15 cogs are loose, the 16-17 are riveted, and the 18-21 are riveted. Is this the case for all 9 speed Ultegra and DA cassettes? I have to review the chart to see if there any combinations that appeal to me. Thanks for all the info everyone.
re: Tooth counts for Ultegra/DA cassettes.pmf1
Dec 19, 2002 1:06 PM
I seem to recall that one more cog is fused in the Ultegra cassette than the Dura Ace cassette. Maybe not, but I think this might be true.
re: Tooth counts for Ultegra/DA cassettes.Chen2
Dec 19, 2002 1:42 PM
No, the cog configurations are the same for D-A and Ultegra, but there are more Ultegra cassettes than D-A cassettes. In either group all cogs smaller than 16 are individuals. The only individual 16's (9-speed) with the Shimano name are in the mtn. cassettes. I've posted the URL in another post, below, for Shimano's Ultegra cassette charts. I buy individual cogs from www.sheldonbrown.com. I've tried buying Shimano cogs but that doesn't seem possible.
~Al
re: 105s have an indivudal 16..............Rusty Coggs
Dec 19, 2002 3:12 PM
.....but you have to remove the rivets holding the whole cassette together.
re: 105s have an indivudal 16..............Chen2
Dec 19, 2002 3:28 PM
Thanks, so far I haven't drilled out any rivets. On the clusters that I've seen there would be only one usable cog out of the cluster if the rivets are removed. Do the 9-speed 105's have an individual 16? I suppose an 8-speed cog will work on a 9-speed cassette OK, I'm not sure what the difference is or exactly what Sheldon sells, but they work fine.
~Al
re: 105s have an indivudal 16..............Rusty Coggs
Dec 19, 2002 8:13 PM
Yes,9 speed 105s have indivudal cogs and the 12/23,13/23, and13/25 have a 16.Shimano 8 speed cogs are 1.8mm think, and 9 speed are 1.78mm thick.I haven't tried interchanging them.
re: not exactly true......Rusty Coggs
Dec 19, 2002 11:10 AM
DA and ultegra have some of the cogs on indivudal carriers.105 and below are indivudal cogs and spacers riveted together.the rivets are easily removed. Sheldon Brown offers custom cassettes using indivudal shimano cogs.
re: Tooth counts for Ultegra/DA cassettes.DougSloan
Dec 19, 2002 10:04 AM
Here's table that I made; working down from larger cogs, every 2 cogs are connected for the ones over 15 teeth; for the XTR cassette, the last one, I think the top 3 or 4 or connected. You can download a spreadsheet to play with the gearing numbers here: http://www.midcalracing.com/gears.xls

Keep in mind that the smallest cog is specialized, in that it is not flat, and had a serrated edge to hold the lock ring.

I've tried, and there's not a whole lot you can do.
XTR Cassette?pmf1
Dec 19, 2002 10:07 AM
Did you get that to work with a regular DA derailer?

My wife's bike has the longer triple derailer. Think it would work on that?
XTR Cassette?DougSloan
Dec 19, 2002 10:25 AM
Not sure if it would work; I use the XTR derailleur with it.

The issue is whether the upper rd pulley would clear that 34 tooth cog, not so much the chain takeup. I know a standard DA rd won't even come close. You try, very carefully.
XTR CassetteChen2
Dec 19, 2002 12:34 PM
My wife ran an XTR cassette and XTR rear derailleur for 2 years but the big ratio jumps between cogs are not so good for road riding. If you are trying to maintain a specific speed it can be a problem finding a comfortable cadence. My non-mechanical wife didn't like it so I built her a 14-28 cassette and changed her crank-set to a Campy Racing T with 50-40-30 tooth rings. The rest of the drive train is Shimano Ultegra/D-A. This gives her good close-ratio low and middle range gearing. I guess we should call this a Frankensteinette drive train.
~Al
re: Tooth counts for Ultegra/DA cassettes.Lactate Junkie
Dec 19, 2002 10:05 AM
Most of the cogs on DA and Ultegra cassettes are riveted to carriers. You cannot change them and in theory, you cannot mix the carriers from one cassette to another and have it shift properly. If you are going to make custom combinations you will need to go to someone who makes individual cogs that fit Shimano hubs
No ProblemChen2
Dec 19, 2002 10:55 AM
Shimano has exploded views of their 9-speed cassettes and also charts showing all of the normal configurations. These can be found at their European web page. Just go to www.Shimano.com then European bikes and follow your nose. All of my cassettes are mixtures of Shimano 9-speed cogs and cogs from www.sheldonbrown.com. I usually run a 13-25, 13-26, or 13-27. I got the 13's from Sheldon. The 13-26 is a combination of cogs from a 12-27 and the middle cogs from an XTR, very light. They all include a 16 in the middle. My wife usually runs a 9-speed 14-28 made from a D-A 12-25 with idividual cogs from Sheldon. They all shift smoothly and trouble free, no problems.
~Al
re: www.branfordbike.com catalogue,cassettes...nmRusty Coggs
Dec 19, 2002 11:06 AM
nm
6500 Ultegra Cassette URLChen2
Dec 19, 2002 11:23 AM
Try this: www.shimano-europe.com/cycling/phpimages/product/exp_view/CS-6500.pdf

~Al
"Custom" S cassettesKerry
Dec 19, 2002 4:46 PM
One of the guys I ride with gets his 13-23 S cassettes through the LBS. I've never seen this combo for sale (all S units start with 11 or 12), but that appears to be a distribution problem. Consider bugging your LBS about what they can actually get, rather than just what they stock.
Branford has 13's and 14's first position cogsDougSloan
Dec 19, 2002 5:16 PM
FW-47-19 Ultegra 13 Tooth Cog
with a built in spacer 13-23 and 13-25 $9.88

http://www.branfordbike.com/cassette/cog17.html#item2
"Custom" S cassettesChen2
Dec 20, 2002 6:45 AM
Yes, my LBS says he can get Shimano cassettes starting with 13 or 14. Shimano lists the 13-23, 13-25 and 14-25. I started customizing cassettes because I had three good 12-27's lying around and I needed the 16 more than the 12. Converting cassettes does not necessarily save money.
Al