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ZIp 404 experience(6 posts)

ZIp 404 experiencepet
Dec 8, 2002 3:39 AM
I would like to gather expereience from anybody whom hav expereience having traing and race ona single carbon wheelset, like the ZIPP 404? I' considering to purchase the NEW 2003 ZIPP 404 tubulars and would like to stick with a single wheelset for both training and racing. Any feedback on spoke tuning, carbon rim cracking due to high mileage, spoke breakage & etc would be helpful. Changing wheelset is just to too much work, as my past experience with 2 normal wheelset(36 spoke for trainging & 28 spoke for RACE) having to tune the rear der., brake alignment and wheel magnet & sensor! I weght 160lbs, a spinner and clock 5000 miles a year with Conti Sprinter 250 tubular.

Thank you for any valuable feedback.
re: ZIp 404 experienceLactate Junkie
Dec 8, 2002 9:40 AM
The Zipp 404's are great wheels. However, I would still suggest training on one set of wheels and racing on another. For the following reasons:
1. Training wheels take a beating. 404's are good durable wheels,but training on them is going to beat them up and they will need to be replaced sooner. A bummer for a $1000+ set of wheels. I am sure they will last as long as any other very light wheel, it is just that it is a lot more expensive to replace a $350 Zipp 404 rim that you dinged in a chuckhole than a $50 Mavic CXP33.
2. Training on the same tires you race on is a bad idea. They always seem to go flat in a race not on training rides. Maybe because you cause small damage during training that causes failure when placed under the stress of racing--don't know, it just seems to work that way.
3. After 30 years of racing and probably 20 of training and racing on sewups, I cannot imagine ever training on them again. I still think they offer huge advantages over clinchers in a race but what a pain in the ass while training. If I were going to pick a single set of wheels for everything, it would probably be something like Mavic Ksyriums or the new Rolf Vigor,or even a clincher version of the 404.
3. Because of index shifting, the spacing of most hubs is pretty much standardized for either Shimano or Campy. It has been years since I have had to worry about readjusting my rear derailleur after switching wheels. You should be able to set up all wheels so that the magnets are in the same place. This only leaves the brake pad height and a couple of twists of the adjuster one way or another and you are done. I don't know, but if you are not willing to take that minimal amount of time before a race to make sure your equipment is working properly, I am not sure I would want to be anywhere around you during a race.
re: fundamentally agree...Akirasho
Dec 8, 2002 12:49 PM
While the 404's represent an excellent combination of light weight, superb bearings and world class aerodynamics... I couldn't imagine risking them as my primary wheelset.

Indeed, if you Crit race, there might come a time when you'll need to swap to your backup pair, so it pays to become familiar with the idiosyncracies of two wheelsets (and their associated cassettes and rim/brake interface).

We abide.

Remain In Light.

Be the bike.
Yep, and......JS
Dec 8, 2002 6:23 PM
Training usually involves inclimate conditions and I will tell you from personal experience that riding 404's in wind is no fun. I raced state champs last year and it was calm at the start but the wind kicked up half way through, trying to hold a steady line while maxed out in a break while your wheels are trying to push you off the road suck's.
re: ZIp 404 experiencecxer
Dec 8, 2002 9:09 PM
You only put on 5000 miles a year. You can use 404's for both training and racing. You can definitely use 404s for all your riding and racing. Other posts are right, your reasons for only wanting to use one wheelset are a little askew.

Zipps are tough and I don't have any problems with them. They are more sensitive to crosswinds than a regular wheel but nothing that bothers me. As for durability and strength, I race cross on them with no problem. NO road racing or training is as tough on wheels as cross. 404's are great wheels and the deep V shape is probably stronger than a box rim.
New reason NOT toroleur21
Dec 9, 2002 9:11 AM
Using info from John Cobb on the aero qualities of these and similar deep section wheels, you can figure that the 404's will save about 20-30 watts of energy over a beater set at the same speed. If you are doing a lot of group rides and such, this means you are riding easier and burning fewer calories. I read a study on Rabobank that said their guys burn 600+ fewer calories per day at the tour on their deep section aero wheels, and that is from SRM data combining in the pack, off the front/back whatever.

For me the last thing I want is to go train for six hours and be 'holding back' due to my equipment choice. Buy some T217 rims from Mavic (700c mtn. rims) build them 32 spoke and put heavy,crappy tires on them. This will make you train like a real man, not to mention you will put on your race wheels and feel like a god as your bike loses 2 pounds and becomes noticably more responsive.

Having said all this, I have 404 tubies and ride them all the time, can't help it, there fabulous.