|Campy VS. Shimano - Who is better?||SPDRECRD|
Nov 16, 2002 8:20 PM
|Currently I am running Ultegra and I am considering upgrading to either DURA ACE or Campy Record. Anybody have any preference and some supporting information for that preference?
Thanks in advance, the help is much appreciated!
|Do a search on this forum, it's been discussed to death! nm||gogene|
Nov 16, 2002 9:03 PM
|Ford vs Chevy........||Dave Hickey|
Nov 17, 2002 5:55 AM
|It's a no win debate.|
|re: Campy VS. Shimano - Who is better?||koala|
Nov 17, 2002 6:11 AM
|There is a guy in a local bike shop who once raced in Europe as a junior. Whenever asked about which high end frame or grouppo is better he says they are all the same. He, when pressed, says that the rider is what matters and that we should pay more attention to our training.|
|compare Chorus to DuraAce...||C-40|
Nov 17, 2002 6:26 AM
|This topic has been beaten to death. Chorus compares more closely to DuraAce in price and finish. Chorus is cheaper and has 10 cogs, but it's a bit heavier. Record will funtion identically to Chorus, but it's lighter and more costly.
There are significant differences in the operation of the shifters and the size/shape of the brake hoods. I much prefer the Campy shifters. The bike looks cleaner with both cables hidden under the bar tape, but it does take a lot of time to properly route and tape the cables to the bars before installing the bar tape. Routing both cables on the front side of the bars is the best option, IMO. If you've never used Campy ergo levers, the biggest difference is the campy thumb button that allows you to shift from the largest cog to the smallest with one thrust of the thumb button. The thumb button is also accesible from more positions than the shimano lever.
Having 10 cogs can be an advantage if you ride challenging terrain. The 12-25 cassette includes the important 16T cog that's absent on the Shimano 12-25 cassette. If a 12-23 cassette provides enough low gearing, then the extra cog issue is unimportant.
|compare Chorus to DuraAce...||bugleboy|
Nov 17, 2002 5:21 PM
|That one tooth makes all the difference?|
|It's not one tooth, its 7% vs 13%||Kerry|
Nov 17, 2002 5:55 PM
|If you have a 15/16/17, then the jumps between gears are about 7%. If you you have 15/17, then the jump is 13%. If you think that 13% is not a significant gear jump, then . . .|
|It's not one tooth, its 7% vs 13%||altidude|
Nov 18, 2002 10:00 AM
|How was anyone able to ride 10 or 20 years ago when they only had 6 7 or 8 speeds?|
|52/42 x 14-20||Kerry|
Nov 18, 2002 5:31 PM
|Back in the old days, you had a 52/42 chainring, and then switched freewheels depending on the course. If you faced a downhill finish, you fitted a FW something like 13/15/16/17/18/20. If you had hills, you went with 14/15/16/18/20/22. If you had hills and a downhill finish, you started running out of options, and people made gut feel decisions, sometimes regretted on the steeper hills or at the finish line. Before front derailleurs could handle the "big" jump of 10 teeth, the standard racing setup in the mid-60s was a 52/49 with a 14/16/18/21/24 freewheel (half step gearing).|
Nov 18, 2002 10:07 AM
|The more the better. However, don't forget that you have another chainring, which can supply intermediate combinations.
53x15=93.6 gear inches
39x12=86.1 (but, could have cross chain issue, if no 11 cog)
|did you also forget something???||C-40|
Nov 18, 2002 2:16 PM
|You've proven the point that missing the 16T is not a good situtation.
The 39x12 should not be used if it's the smallest cog and it's rarely useable, with an 11T top cog.
It would also be silly to double shift just to catch this combo.
|did you read my post?||trekkie1|
Nov 18, 2002 2:48 PM
|I specifically conceded that cross chaining is an issue, if you have no 11 cog. A 39x12, if you have an 11, works perfectly well.
Silly to double shift? How lazy can we get? In the old days, you almost were required to double shift for every gear step or 1 1/2 gear step change, and that was with downtube friction shifters.
My point was more general, though, than limited to this specific gear combo -- that is, that the other ring can supply intermediate gear steps when there appears to be a big gap. This is even more true for the 53x18 combo, where a 39x13 is almost the same. Does anyone here "have" to have the 18 cog?
All this aside, a decent rider should have various cadences sufficient to overcome a 2 tooth gap. Unless you are doing a fairly flat time trial, I'd say you'll never miss the 16.(But of course, if you do, you'll be running a(n almost) straight block 11-21 or 12-21 (containing a 16) anyway, right?)
|Chorus and Record are identical...||JS|
Nov 17, 2002 8:44 PM
|except for some carbon bits and Ti cassettes. Really just a showy version of Chorus, not worth the extra money if you have to pay for it(unlike sponsored riders). As far as the thumb button "being more accesible from more positions" Shimano doesn't use a thumb button. Also, you must not ride in the drops because you need thumbs like an ape to shift the thumb button from that position. I really like Chorus but it's kind of a pain running Campy for racing.|
|anything is better than shimano||Ratite_Power|
Nov 18, 2002 2:03 AM
|All I know is that ANYTHING must be better than goddamm ultegra bullshi%t---breaking down after only 1500 miles consistently--caps rattling like dead bones all day--sloppy-ass shifting, except within two weeks of new purchase. Sh&t-tegra. I'm almost tempted to invest in electronic shifters lol.|
|If you're racing||roadcyclist|
Nov 18, 2002 2:44 AM
|go with Shimano. They dominate the market which is important in races with neutral support where you need a wheel. If you're not racing, go with Chorus (unless you just have the big bucks to go for Record). Identical in function (today's Chorus IS yesterday's Record). The 10 speed cassette is infinitely better than the 9 speed option. You can even get a 13-26 with the short cage rear der. Plenty of low gear for climbing. I also agree with above post about the cleaner look at the bars. One more thing - if you're the type of cyclist that just rides and never cleans or lubes the drivetrain, get Shimano. If you take pride in your ride, get Campy of course.|
Nov 19, 2002 7:28 AM
|Ultegra hasn't had those plastic caps with the rattling problem for 2-3 years. Either you're talking about a bike you bought used, or you need to ride the one you have a bit more often.
1500 miles is two months worth of riding -- Ultegra parts will last a hell of a lot longer than that. You need to learn to tune your bike. Sloppy-ass shifting can be corrected. If you really have these problems after only 1500 miles, and don't know how to take care of them yourself, take it back to the LBS that sold it to you and have them look at it. They can show you what to do.
Your problems are not component related, they're rider related.
|compare Chorus to DuraAce...||divve|
Nov 19, 2002 4:29 AM
|I heard that Campy retail pricing is set artificially high in the US. Distributor pricing for Record is actually lower than DA. Also, when you look at the prices in Europe, Record and DA don't differ that much.
Regarding the gear selection issue...amongst other large changes I was told that DA04 might have a 12 gear cassette.
BTW, this isn't to bash Campagnolo. Just thought some additional info would be helpful. Personally, I only care that my stuff works. I'm rather indifferent to what groupo is on my road bike. On my MTB however I like XTR03 and my SI Hollowgram cranks a lot. I think it's more a matter of perspective and how much pride you take in your ride instead of a quality or pricing issue.
|re: Campy VS. Shimano - Who is better?||mackgoo|
Nov 18, 2002 7:11 AM
|CAMPY of course. That is unless you are deeply intrenched in the throw away mind set of the USA.|| |